I'm going to post the below formula on behalf of Seymour who made it up on the spot while round mine last summer. It really is the best blue formula around and I have tested the veline one, some of the ones of pyroguide and "pyro science" blue (which is better than others too but not quite as good as...)
Seymour's KP blue
KP – 58
Lactose – 15
Parlon – 9
CuO – 8
Red gum – 4
Sulphur – 3
Mgal – 3
The best blue formula you will ever have used!
Started by
Maxim
, Jan 15 2011 12:56 PM
41 replies to this topic
#2
martyn
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Posted 15 January 2011 - 03:09 PM
I'm going to post the below formula on behalf of Seymour who made it up on the spot while round mine last summer. It really is the best blue formula around and I have tested the veline one, some of the ones of pyroguide and "pyro science" blue (which is better than others too but not quite as good as...)
Seymour's KP blue
KP – 58
Lactose – 15
Parlon – 9
CuO – 8
Red gum – 4
Sulphur – 3
Mgal – 3
Forgive me for being thick but I have a question.
What are you using as the binder, are you using acetone or alchol to activate the parlon or red gum, or are you adding an amount of dextrin or something else to be the binder?
Cheers
#3
Maxim
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Posted 15 January 2011 - 04:47 PM
The red gum serves as both part of the fuel and the binder. Parlon acts as the binder and the chlorine donor. Use only acetone to activate the binders in this composition 
#5
MDH
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Posted 16 January 2011 - 03:45 AM
I'm fascinated. I can make this for certain right now, except for the red gum (and honestly, I don't plan on buying any soon). Can that be substituted? Also, can we see this composition in action on video either as a star or a loose pile?
#6
seymour
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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:57 AM
I'd expect it to be pretty similar if you add 5% Dextrin to replace the 4% Red Gum, and then you can bind with water, which has it's own advantages.
I'm humbled my Maxim's high opinion of this formula, but I know there are better formulas out there!
I'm humbled my Maxim's high opinion of this formula, but I know there are better formulas out there!
The monkey leaped off it's sunny perch and flew off into the night sky.
#7
Maxim
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Posted 16 January 2011 - 02:15 PM
Well Seymour, im up for trying anything blue formula you are willing to throw at me 
but for now im still convinced that this is the best one (at least one that doesnt use ammonium perchlorate which is harder to get hold of)
Heres a video of a blue mine that almost blew my head off (This should teach everyone to ALWAYS wrap electrical tape or something substantial around the connection between the visco and quick match! The wind blew sparks from the visco into the quick match and it all went off a bit too early)
While it was a close call, you can see that the blue is clearly a cool blue and not off-white like the veline one or many others.
but for now im still convinced that this is the best one (at least one that doesnt use ammonium perchlorate which is harder to get hold of)
Heres a video of a blue mine that almost blew my head off (This should teach everyone to ALWAYS wrap electrical tape or something substantial around the connection between the visco and quick match! The wind blew sparks from the visco into the quick match and it all went off a bit too early)
While it was a close call, you can see that the blue is clearly a cool blue and not off-white like the veline one or many others.
#8
cooperman435
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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:56 AM
I prefer Acetone bound as it makes it better waterproofed and faster drying too.
Id advise using red gum as it also helps the damp mix not stick to your tools :-)
Id advise using red gum as it also helps the damp mix not stick to your tools :-)
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#9
MDH
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Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:53 AM
An interesting note, maxim... Since 2004 I've been putting folds of masking tape over the tip of my fuses and igniting the tape first. It gives me another 15 or so seconds to remove myself from the area and get a nice view of my creation!
That is definitely quite a nice blue. I might use it in the future, but add a small amount of barium nitrate (my friends often see purely copper blues as purple. I see blue, but has anyone else noticed people saying this?)...
That is definitely quite a nice blue. I might use it in the future, but add a small amount of barium nitrate (my friends often see purely copper blues as purple. I see blue, but has anyone else noticed people saying this?)...
#10
Potassium chlorate
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Posted 17 January 2011 - 12:03 PM
I prefer Acetone bound as it makes it better waterproofed and faster drying too.
Id advise using red gum as it also helps the damp mix not stick to your tools :-)
What kind of stars do you make? Rolled are the best in performance no matter the binder(s), but when it comes to the actual star-making I find parlon in acetone easiest to cut.
By the way, ethyl acetate might make the parlon less sticky than acetone, though it's awfully expensive in some countries.
"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."
Dr. James Cutbush
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."
Dr. James Cutbush
#11
Potassium chlorate
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Posted 17 January 2011 - 12:17 PM
I'd expect it to be pretty similar if you add 5% Dextrin to replace the 4% Red Gum, and then you can bind with water, which has it's own advantages.
I'm humbled my Maxim's high opinion of this formula, but I know there are better formulas out there!
AP Blue (New Blue) is very nice. And it might still be true that some Paris Green compositions are the best, but I'm not convinced of this yet. The problem is that for really finding out what a star looks like, especially a blue one, you have to test it in a shell.
But this is one of the nicest I have ever seen made with such "simple" chemicals. Considering that there is MgAl present, I would say that it's extremely good, since you usually lose in colour "depth" what you gain in light emittance when adding a metal fuel to a blue composition.
"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."
Dr. James Cutbush
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."
Dr. James Cutbush
#12
Creepin_pyro
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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:52 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but blues are a very subjective thing...
Someone's 'perfect' cool chlorate/lactose blue might look way too dim to others, MgAl blues too washed out etc etc...
There's no way of comparing colours from individual videos with different sources. There are alot of factors here which can't be controlled without shooting side by side or at least using the same camera and manual settings.
I think we need to have a competition... anyone got some land spare?
Someone's 'perfect' cool chlorate/lactose blue might look way too dim to others, MgAl blues too washed out etc etc...
There's no way of comparing colours from individual videos with different sources. There are alot of factors here which can't be controlled without shooting side by side or at least using the same camera and manual settings.
I think we need to have a competition... anyone got some land spare?
#13
AdmiralDonSnider
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Posted 17 January 2011 - 09:59 PM
I´m with creepin_pyro on the comparision problems. Another factor is what is regarded as a good blue; the main advantage of paris green stars, aside from their hue, was the easy ignition, high wind resistance, large flame size, high burn speed etc. Today "best" seems to be identified with "deepest", or "brightest", solely. Thanks for the formula though, really love the input.
#14
Potassium chlorate
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Posted 17 January 2011 - 10:05 PM
This one gives an enormous flame envelope:
potassium chlorate 70
Paris Green 15
hexamine 15
One slight disadvantage though (apart from the difficulties to get hold of Paris Green in most places in Europe and its toxicity): chlorates aren't stable with hexamine.
potassium chlorate 70
Paris Green 15
hexamine 15
One slight disadvantage though (apart from the difficulties to get hold of Paris Green in most places in Europe and its toxicity): chlorates aren't stable with hexamine.
Edited by Potassium chlorate, 17 January 2011 - 10:05 PM.
"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."
Dr. James Cutbush
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."
Dr. James Cutbush
#15
Creepin_pyro
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Posted 17 January 2011 - 11:54 PM
One slight disadvantage though (apart from the difficulties to get hold of Paris Green in most places in Europe and its toxicity): chlorates aren't stable with hexamine.
One of the great things about being a hobbyist is that you can ignore (to some degree) the usual industrial constraints of price, stability, toxicity, long-term storage, ease of manufacture etc, and obtain superior results.
Here's a really nice blue:
Source - unknown
'Some oldies from rec.pyrotechnics' - Warimoto
60 parts of ammonium perchlorate
10 parts of sulfur
10 parts of dextrin
12 parts of polyvinyl chloride (if you use Parlon, add further 2 parts of dextrin)
20 parts of copper(II)oxide
Yes, I know, that's a lot of dextrin... it works though.
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