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HPR fuels

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#1 BlackSky



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Posted 10 September 2004 - 05:25 PM

HPR (High Power Rockets) Fuels. I think this forum is created for that. If not please let me know to stop !

I wonder if someone can give a details on how to make these types of fuels to be used in rockets.

I got a few info. about that but I need more.
The info.s those I already have is that if you mix 80:20/AN:Urethane or PVC then this will be a powerful fuel for HPR. I actually don't know if this can be ignited easley or it need another materials to be added as a binder !?

Another question, Can I use the selicon that is used to fix the windows glasses instead of urethane or the PVC ?

Is there any other material to be replaced by the urethane or PVC ?
Can I use this fuel in small rockets ? If not WHY ?


#2 pritch


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Posted 11 September 2004 - 12:49 PM

I hope you have tried making normal rockets yet.. If not you are sure to fail and possibly have a nasty accident. If you search on google for nackka rocketry you will find lots of information on the dextrose, kno3 rockets which go thousands of feet. They are also pretty safe to work with compared to some other stuff.

#3 BlackSky



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Posted 11 September 2004 - 05:28 PM

I already succeeded in making BP and sucrose rockets. They were amazing but I'm intending to use AN as an oxidizer since I have alot of it and I want to use it in rockets rather than making any of HE.
By the way, Nakka has no enough info's about AN fuels.
By the way, AN fuels will give 5 miles and this is why I'm intresting to !

#4 alany


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Posted 12 September 2004 - 06:36 AM

AN fuels are a pain in the butt to deal with, that bloody phase change and their hygroscopicity before binding makes you jump through hoops. AP is better, but obviously more expensive and harder to get.

Both are "watched" in the sense that you have to be careful about buying quantities, but AP is a common pyrochemical so there is some (questionable) plausable deniability there. I think I'll stick to BP and other KN oxidised fuels for now.

#5 BlackSky



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Posted 12 September 2004 - 12:55 PM

Thanks for the advice and don't worry I already have about 75kg of AN and I don't need to buy it. :)

#6 miniskinny



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Posted 29 September 2004 - 02:20 AM

Any good formulas with Ammonium Perchlorate?
When one plays with fire, one is bound to get burndt.

#7 mnementh



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Posted 14 November 2004 - 11:24 PM

Hi guys,
I'm a total beginner here but I have a fair chemistry background, so thought I would try this as a first post.

I believe Ammonium Nitrate to be an excellent choice as an oxidiser but for a couple of unfortunate properties;

1) It's a high explosive in it's own right
2) It's very hygroscopic

For unfortunate property 1) the good news is that it's actually very stable and doesn't want to blow up of it's own accord. Care in it's preparation should be "relatively" safe.

2)I think needs consideration of the fuel used. I've searched this and can't find any thread that uses my proposed fuel, namely candle wax (Tallow)

This fuel (no obvious chemical formula, unfortunately) melts at a fairly low temperature (60C - 95C) and a coating of wax should, in my humble opinion, provide a water barrier.

Has anyone tried this propellant?. If so, what results did you get?

All comments welcome.

P.S. excellent and very informative forum, by the way.

Edited by mnementh, 14 November 2004 - 11:25 PM.

#8 BlackSky



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Posted 15 January 2005 - 10:31 PM

I tried to melt candle wax with KNO3 in ratio of 30:70/wax:KNO3 , But it did not work even if you try to burn it with a direct flame. :(

#9 broadsword


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Posted 16 January 2005 - 11:09 PM

I would have been very suprised if that KN03 and Candle wax mix had worked!
Broadsword Calling DannyBoy....

#10 Erwin



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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:19 PM

Maiby you can try to coat your AN first with parafine or something, by first disolving a bit of wax in a good useble solvent and add that to your fuel.
Melting it won't work because it won't mix, the nitrate will sink to te bodem.
The best methode for using AN is just use dry chems and just mix and use it as fast as possible because of it hydroscopicity(if that's a real word).

By the way, AN fuels will give 5 miles and this is why I'm intresting to !

What do you mean by that?
The hight of the fly doesn't matter on the fuel alone.

AN is explosive on his one, but you don't need to be scared of it, because it's very stable and unsensetive.

Sorry about my bad Englisch.

#11 Steve


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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:27 PM

Adding a small amount of a suitable detergent should help the two liquids become miscible, however I can't say what a suitable detergent would be in this situation, only way to find out would be to try diferent ones in small batches.
Inoxia Pyrotechnics - The UK online store for chemicals and other pyrotechnics supplies

#12 pinot


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Posted 11 April 2005 - 07:55 PM

It is possible to use AN as a pure oxidizer. As an ingredient of the oxidizer as well. I have done several tests where pure AN or mixtures AN/AP or AN/KP or AN/AP/KP were used.

For the pure AN propellant U have to use a catalyzer of decomposition....usually chromate (ammonium bichromate is the best choice). Then U can even mix AN and polyurethane to get some propellant. Its Kn is very high (600-700) but it works.
The common information avaliable everywhere in the internet that a simple mixture of 85%AN and 15% PUR can be used in amateur motor is a bulls**t...(or it has to burn at 3000 psi to achieve a reasonable rate)
I agree that dealing with AN is a pure s**t - drying, need of working quickly, protecting the nozzle against humidity etc. The phase transition of AN at +/-35 deg C is not so bad if 4% of KNO3 (phase stabilizer) and elastic binder is added. Advantage is really low cost

Another way to make a solid propellant is to combine AN and Mg powder which work well together. Wickmann has been producing quite good fuels by combining AN/Mg/HTPB. I made a similar propellant based on a neutral silicone (instead of HTPB), Al-Mg (magnalite powder) and AN + additives. It is much more difficult in production, the performance is not perfect but it works...

For some more data look here: www.pinot.webpark.pl - once again sorry for my English ( I still polish it :P ) - remarks welcomed

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