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PPE for displaying small fireworks and box stuff


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#1 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 02:20 PM

:D How necessary is to wear full PPE when displaying using weak and weedy innocuous small so called Cat3 25m display fireworks and small flight cat2/cat3 selection box fodder? reason I ask it is;
I have been to a fireworks party where there were two people wearing 3-in-one lumberjack helmets/gloves for firing small innocuous Cat3 material and assorted small to medium mixed selection box Cat2/Cat3 material that was absolutely tame and crud at 25m away;is it really worth over-reacting on safety grounds by wearing such OTT personal protective equipment for such small material whose fallout and hazards are so insignificant? I personally would wear goggles/gloves and earplugs (and no hard hat) for small innocuous stuff and selection box fodder but I WOULD wear a full 3-in-one lumberjack helmet and gloves for displays with lots of big Cat3 25m display fireworks. :glare:

#2 curious aardvark

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 02:32 PM

Well speaking as someone who has been setting off firework displays for many years and has yet to receive any kind of burn I would say the only safety equipment you need is a little common sense.

1) never stick your head over a dud firework and say: 'hmm, that bit down there's still glowing I'll just blow on it a little.' Sounds obvious but it's why you can no longer buy mortars in the shops in the uk.
2) Use portfires, not cigarette lighters or matches
3) Do not have more than one assistant (if any)
4) layout your rocket tubes and cake platforms/buckets with sufficient space between so that they don't self ignite.
5) if lighting by hand don't set off more than 2 cakes at once, unless they are directly side by side and then probably best to use 3 as max - you need backpeddling time.
6) check wind direction and make sure spectators stand upwind.

I would guess that heavy gloves would make lighting things a bit dodgy and add to the danger rather than reduce it. Likewise anything that obscures your vision can't be good. I have fairly asbestos like fingers anyway :-)
Do All things with Honour and generosity: Regret nothing, Envy no-one, Apologise seldom and bow your head to No Man - works for me :-)
Oh yeah and never leave home without a lighter :-)

#3 RegimentalPyro

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 05:56 PM

Gonna have to disagree here.

Long sleeved thick fabric shirt and gloves are essential, along with sensible footwear. A boiler suit with safety boots is the best.

Likewise a full protective helmet with facemask and ear defenders is really unavoidable.

OK - You probably won't need that much for nine out of ten shows, but even weedy pyro can go wrong in a very belligerent way. That tenth show you'll be thanking me!

I do agree about the common sense approach though. It's one of your most valuable skills to cultivate in this game...

#4 LadyKate

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 07:04 PM

Likewise a full protective helmet with facemask and ear defenders is really unavoidable.

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Are we talking about doing a consumer class display? Meaning - the stuff kids buy over-the-counter (or have mom and dad buy for them)?

#5 RegimentalPyro

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 07:24 PM

Yeah - That stuff too. No Really! Anything over touchpaper and sparklers in fact! After all why not?

I've seen a 4 shot fountain start candle of 3/8ths inch bore [ie: tiny!] go all at once. The bang beat any salute I've made and the four stars came out at any angle except vertical.

Wearing PPE ensures that if this sort of thing happens [and don't forget Murphy's law says If it can it will] then physical harm is minimized.

Pyro is not safe. It costs virtually nothing to take precautions of this type and the demonstrating how to minimise risk is part of the show in my book.

#6 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 08:17 AM

:( But why would you wear a lumberjack helmet,gloves and overalls for a small mixed family sized box of garden and display fireworks and packs of small innocuous Cat3 25m fireworks? I have done this and people have thought of me "he looks an utter pratt dressed up to fire all this, why?". I gave up wearing the overalls and just use the rest of my PPE; a hard hat with faceshield and gloves and safety boots (or safety wellies if ground is damp or wet), and I rarely bother with hearing protection because not all fireworks are loud and offensive to the ears, I'am quite used to loud bangs etc. :glare:

Edited by Anthony, 01 September 2005 - 09:46 AM.


#7 Richard H

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 10:46 AM

The answer is many people don't. But I always wear PPE when hand firing anything.

#8 LadyKate

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 11:10 AM

Yeah - That stuff too. No Really! Anything over touchpaper and sparklers in fact! After all why not?

Pyro is not safe. It costs virtually nothing to take precautions of this type and the demonstrating how to minimise risk is part of the show in my book.

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The problem with recommending full PPE for sparklers seems important enough that I want to take a differing opinion. I hope you don't mind.

The whole point behind safety messages is to communicate so that someone doesn't get hurt. I do understand the need to err on the safe side. But going too far can cause a backlash that undermines the (desired) safety-first message. We run the risk of not being taken seriously - thus the 'must do' safety measures get ignored to someone's pain and to the detriment of the hobby.

From a practical standpoint, the last wedding I went to would certainly have been less photographed if everyone had worn full PPE while lighting their sparklers. ... hmmm... or maybe not ---- :)

#9 Richard H

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 11:23 AM

You misread the post. Jon said:

Anything over touchpaper and sparklers



#10 LadyKate

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 11:42 AM

You misread the post. Jon said:

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I apologize for zeroing in on the sparkler bit - especially since I misread it. However, I believe the response to my question about recommending full PPE for 1.4g stuff (1.4g is for the general public in the States) was what I was reacting to. Unfortunately, my point was marred by my gaff.

The safety message has to be carefully crafted else it becomes mistrusted. Recommending extreme measures for minor risks causes more accidents rather than fewer. People who would normally listen and learn will stop listening when the message becomes specious. Their safety attitude will suffer and there will be more accidents.

#11 Richard H

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 02:06 PM

I think it is down to common sense. Say you are firing a box of Category 2 Garden fireworks for the kids. Lighting each firework singly in the safe manner prescribed, upright in soft earth etc, and then retire to the appropriate 5 metre safety distance before the device functions. It is probably overkill to wear PPE in this case.

Say you are now firing a ?1000 Category 3 Display fireworks show for a local football club or school etc. All the fireworks are laid out and staked, waterproofed in advance etc. You may be lighting one or more fuses at the same time and retire say a few metres from the firework currently going off and getting ready to fire the next item with your fellow firers. Obviously you need full PPE in this scenario.

It is down to common sense and the nature of the device and the site in which it is being used should dictate what safety precautions you are taking for not only the safety of your audience but yourself.

#12 LadyKate

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 02:29 PM

Say you are now firing a ?1000 Category 3 Display fireworks show for a local football club or school etc. All the fireworks are laid out and staked, waterproofed in advance etc. You may be lighting one or more fuses at the same time and retire say a few metres from the firework currently going off and getting ready to fire the next item with your fellow firers. Obviously you need full PPE in this scenario.

It is down to common sense and the nature of the device and the site ..

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Absolutely. PPE for a larger display is just plain good sense. I couldn't imagine being without it. I also use it for some of my smaller experiments - especially when the experiments involve salutes or low breaks - because I want to keep experimenting!

Audience PPE is non-existent (to my knowledge). Therefore, for audiences on most shows, distance is life. I always put the audience (when I have them) at the recommended safety range plus a fudge factor for the kids - and I do this even with 1.4g stuff.

#13 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 03:31 PM

Selection boxes with a mix of Cat2/Cat3 garden and display fireworks;is PPE needed then? There is a mix of 5m/25m safety distances and different hazards i.e. fallout debris etc from significant to minor, does anyone need to wear full PPE to fire a mixed selections box of Category 2 Garden Fireworks and Category 3 display fireworks marked DISPLAY FIREWORKS taking into account the differences in distances/fallout/debris etc (and there are quite a few of these selection boxes around) or would this also be overkill as well? UKFR website says "you need the full 25m safety distance even if you only have one or two Cat3 25m display fireworks and the rest are the Cat2 5m garden firework variety", many mixed selection boxes with Cat2 and Cat3 fireworks would definately fall into this requirement. :glare: :rolleyes: :mellow:

#14 curious aardvark

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 03:40 PM

Well on a personal note I'm just against anything that confuses my sense of touch and makes me a bit clumsy. Actually Sparklers are probably the most dangerous pyro that the majority of the population will handle and flame resistant gloves are a good idea there.

Personally I take the same approach to lighting things that I take to blackberrying (this will make sense I promise - you'll probably disagree, but it will make sense) .
The less there is to catch the thorns the less I get spiked so I go blackberrying in sleeveless t shirts :-)
Similiarly I don't want big clumsy gloves or something obscuring my vision when I'm lighting things - if I didn't already wear glasses I'd use a standard set of ordinary plastic safety glasses or goggles but that would be it. I want to know that I've lit the END of the fuse and can retire at a sensible speed.
Now I've never lit anything bigger than a ?50 cake or a 4 inch mortar (when we could still buy them) from my local firework shop. But that said there's enough ordnance in there to blow my head off without any problem.
Basically you just need the proper lighting portfires and enough room so that if do get a firework that doesn't go off you can leave it alone till the following day and still have space to carry on the display.
I want to be able to move freely, I don't want loads of clothes. Did I mention that I'm actually fireproof ? :-)

So no I don't believe you need over the top gear for packaged fireworks if you are sensible.
Do All things with Honour and generosity: Regret nothing, Envy no-one, Apologise seldom and bow your head to No Man - works for me :-)
Oh yeah and never leave home without a lighter :-)

#15 The_Djinn

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 06:48 PM

PPE varies from between companies.
Speaking for myself, generaly we all wear donkey jackets (wool is naturally fire retardent) and offers a great deal of protection. Hard hats if in close proximity to display area or hand firing a show. Gloves.. hmm like to feel what I am dealing with, used mostly when rigging or de-rigging. Safety glasses - personaly I hate anything near my face but some use them. Decent foot wear - boots. Ear defenders - mp3 player works a treat :) and when hand firing, portfires are a must.

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