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Thermit / Copper Sulfate thermit


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#1 tiliquachub

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 03:36 AM

hey,


I searched for any posts with thermite, but didnt get any real answers,

I was lookin around on the net for some new experments to play around with, and i found this,

could you please read this, and let me know what you think?



THERMITE

Here is a good and easy way to make it. The first step is to get some iron oxide (which is RUST!). Here is a good way to make large quantities in a short time:

- Get a DC converter like the one used on a train set. Cut the connector off, seperate the wires, and strip them both.

- Now you need a jar of water with a tablespoon or so of sodium chloride (which is SALT!) added to it. This makes the water conductive.

- Now insert both wires into the mixture (I am assuming you plugged the convertor in...) and let them sit for five minutes. One of them will start bubbling more than the other. This is the POSITIVE(+) wire. If you do not do this test right, the final product will be the opposite (chemically) of rust, which is RUST ACID. You have no use for this here (although it IS useful!).

- Anyway, put the nail tied to the positive wire into the jar. Now put the negative wire in the other end. Now let it sit overnight and in the morning scrape the rust off of the nail & repeat until you got a bunch of rust on the bottom of the glass. Be generous with your rust collection. If you are going through the trouble of making thermite, you might as well make a lot, right?

- Now remove the excess water and pour the crusty solution onto a cookie sheet. Dry it in the sun for a few hours, or inside overnight. It should be an orange-brown color (although I have seen it in many different colors! Sometimes the color gets messed up, what can I say... but it is still iron oxide!)

- Crush the rust into a fine powder and heat it in a cast-iron pot until it is red. Now mix the pure iron oxide with pure aluminum filings which can be bought or filed down by hand from an aluminum tube or bar. The ratio or iron oxide to aluminum is 8 grams to 3 grams.

- Congrats! You have just made THERMITE! Now, to light it...

- Thermite requires a LOT of heat (more than a blow torch!) to ignite. However, a magnesium ribbon (which is sorta hard to find.. call around) will do the trick. It takes the heat from the burning magnesium to light the thermite.

* is this a reliable way to make thermite?
*instead of using a magnesium ribbon, could a use a pocket torch,
that burns at 3000 F to light it?
*do you need to use pure iron oxide, or just some old steel nail rust, like it says
here?


thanks,

TC

#2 Stuart

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 06:43 AM

hey,
I searched for any posts with thermite, but didnt get any real answers,

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:blink:

It took me about 25 seconds of searching to find over 100 matches for thermite, and that time included the first search where I accidentally spelt it wrong.

http://www.ukrocketr...082&hl=thermite

http://www.ukrocketr...082&hl=thermite

#3 Yugen-biki

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 08:57 AM

* is this a reliable way to make thermite?

I don't think so. If you are after more then maby a few grams of Fe(III)O this will not be worth the time. An the chanses are that you'll end up with soething that is not Fe(III)O.

*instead of using a magnesium ribbon, could a use a pocket torch,
that burns at 3000 F to light it?

Probably. If the Al and Fe(III)O are of a very fine mesh, it will help. Very fine is something like Al powder used for flash.
Try a sparkler.

*do you need to use pure iron oxide, or just some old steel nail rust,
like it says here?

Pure will help you to get it lit if it lights.

I have tested this method and I can not reccommend it. You will spend a lot of time in something that will probaly not be usefull in thermite. Go buy your self some Fe(III)O. Fine Al powder might be harder to get, but try to search the forum for this.

#4 fishy1

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 12:25 PM

Is copper oxide thermite harder to ignite than the usual stuff?

#5 tiliquachub

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 02:36 PM

thanks stuart,
but is i said, i didnt find any real answers, which was unclear, what i meant was, i didnt find anything about using the mothod above, using IRON oxide, it was just about using copper, and i didnt understand it.

i didnt mean to ask a question that has been asked before,
but i have to say, my other posts were answerd in the same fashon, someone was more than ready to tell me how easy they can prove me wrong, and that even i i look thru the archives, i couldnt have because look what they found.


and Yugen-biki, thanks,

fe(III)0 is iron oxide right?
I was kinda looking for a cheap way to make it, as i dont have the money to spend burning up stuff,lol

so you think i should just buy the ingredients, instead of making them?

when you say you dont really recomend this, is it just that it wont be as succsessful as if it was done in a more presise methond?

thanks,

TC

#6 paul

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 03:31 PM

Fe2O3 respectively Fe3O4 cost about 1,5 to 3€ per KILO at an pottery store...

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#7 neo

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:53 PM

Hi!

I've heard something about coppersulfate thermit and I'm wondering if anyone else have heard anything about this? I'm also wondering how much of the chemicals I should use. And if it's safe and so..
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#8 paul

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:01 PM

It works in combination with magnesium. But first you have to drive out the chemically combined water. So the coppersulfate gets white. Its very hygroscopic in that state and doesn?t need long to suck the water driven out back from the air...

So, don?t try it. There are better and SAFER mixtures.

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#9 neo

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 05:06 PM

okey, thanks for the fast reply!

I think I will go with alu/iron oxide thermite..

edit:

I saw two different thermites on http://come.to/pfp (other -> thermite) one with red iron oxide and one with black, is there much difference between these two thermites? safety and performance?

Edited by neo, 10 September 2005 - 05:10 PM.

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#10 Yugen-biki

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 08:20 PM

Buy them. The price is good for Fe(II)O (Fe2O3; the red powder). You can spend a lot of time getting the described method to work.

#11 David_8956

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 09:40 PM

I would definatly reccomend buying the ingredients as opposed to making them. The Fe2O3 you would make using this method would probably not be very pure, and would be very time consuming considering the small amounts you would actually produce, and Fe2O3 is very cheap to buy anyway. As for the Al powder you could just file down some aluminium but the fillings would not be as reactive as aluminium powder you could buy, this would probably yield poor quality thermite and the activation energy would also be even higher than if you were using powder so it might be very hard to light.

I wouldn't reccomend using a pocket tourch, because when you light thermite (especially in large quantitys) molton bits of iron spray everywhere so you don't want to near it when you are lighting it, a sparkler is an effective and cheap way of lighting it.

#12 tiliquachub

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 05:57 PM

I would definatly reccomend buying the ingredients as opposed to making them.

I wouldn't reccomend using a pocket tourch, because when you light thermite (especially in large quantitys) molton bits of iron spray everywhere so you don't want to near it when you are lighting it, a sparkler is an effective and cheap way of lighting it.

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ok, thanks

is there somewhere that sells iron & or alu powder ? like a hardware store or smething other than a chemical store?

#13 tiliquachub

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 06:37 PM

And I forgot,

I read this on one of the Uk pyro form member's sites,

"Course aluminum is preferred here since it will make the thermite burn longer and expose the target to more heat for a longer period of time."

I want to use the thermite for cutting metal(and similar things), and would like a long burning mix. is it right that a fine mix will light better, but a coarse one will last longer?


thanks for all your help!
sorry that all my questions are begginer's,

andy

#14 neo

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 02:24 PM

I think it is like this with every thing that burns, the finer it is the faster it burns, also easier to light.

so the anwser on your question is: yes :)

Edited by neo, 12 September 2005 - 02:25 PM.

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#15 tiliquachub

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 09:32 PM

ok, thanks!




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