12 replies to this topic

[Frozentech]

For those who may not read the rec.pyrotechnics Usenet news group, a regular on that forum had an accident powdering Magnesium in a ball mill a few days ago. The question often comes up on various forums, "can I mill Mg into powder" ? The answer is "yes, but it can be very dangerous".

This guy, Bob Forward, is pretty experienced in the use of pyro for film special effects ( take a look at www.detonationfilms.com for some of his work, and he did that exploding leaf pile for the Capitol One credit card commercial also, btw - one with the Huns/Vandals who had had to find new jobs ? )

He had already milled Mg chips ( the stuff left over if you buy from Skylighter, who can only ship if 51% of the container is turnings/chips and not fine mesh powder ) into powder, and there was a light coating of Mg in his aluminum milling jar. He was dropping steel media balls one by one into the jar, getting ready to mill another batch. When he dropped the 4th steel ball, it went *foosh* and flashed, and basically toasted his hand.

The consensus on rec.pyrotechnics is that the flash fire that occured was ignited by *impact*, not sparking. A similar accident happened a while back to a *very* experienced professional pyro ( LLoyd Sponenburgh, who wrote the book "Ball Milling Theory and Practice " ).

My conclusion - treat Mg powder in a mill as if it were flash powder ! So now I have 250 grams or so of Magnesium scrap turnings, guess I'll toss em in the fire This is two "close call" accidents I've read of in the past week, both could have been me !

Here is the link to Bob's photo's of the jar, and his hand.
Magnesium milling accident

Stay safe, and Stay Green !

[paul]

Another reason to wear gloves all the time.

These are third degree burns. I only had quite small 2nd degree burns but this simply looks terrible ):

Hope he gets well again very soon!!!

[Ritual33]

Ok thats put me off my bacon sandwich!

[Jerronimo]

That hand looks worse than it probably is, I would say it's a severe 2nd degree burn that, when treated right will heal in about two weeks.

But nonetheless a good reminder to stay safe and wear gloves and eyeprotection when dealing with these kind of materials.
I for one would never mill magnesium or any other metal powder, certainly after seeing this.

Stay Green

[Andrew]

Ok thats put me off my bacon sandwich!

Made me chukkle for quite a while.

looks very nasty though, bet that stings a bit!!!

[paul]

My burns were 2nd degree burns already. I think when the skin totally burns off and then peels of it is 3rd degree.



This is the vesicle today. It doesn?t hurt anymore when bandgaed. I am with this guy in thoughts I know how THIS must hurt. So

That hand looks worse than it probably is

probably is a bit "ballsy" to say


with best regards,

paul

[Frozentech]

My burns were 2nd degree burns already. I think when the skin totally burns off and then peels of it is 3rd degree.



This is the vesicle today. It doesn?t hurt anymore when bandgaed. I am with this guy in thoughts I know how THIS must hurt. So probably is a bit "ballsy" to say
with best regards,

paul

One interesting thing about these Magnesium flare burns - in the case of LLoyd's flash fire, he was seriously burned, but *not* by the flame. In that case a white hot flare of Mg shot out of the ball mill jar sideways, he was a few feet from the flame. The most serious of his burns were on his neck and arm I believe, and were from the incredible UV output of a Mg fire. He immediately poured cold water over it and his skin slipped right off him. He said if he had not had dark glasses on he would be blind ( he was temporarily blind even so ). These things are like a strobe lamp going off and you are 'toasted'. Gloves, long sleeves, and safety glasses always !

Paul, I hope your hand is healing well. I was thinking of the last 1/2" rockets I rammed, and wondering if I should switch to the press, though it's more time consuming...

[fishy1]

i thought 3rd degree burns where when it was burnt to the bone?

[Frozentech]

i thought 3rd degree burns where when it was burnt to the bone?

No it doesn't have to burn to the bone, and probably wouldn't except on fingers and nose.

1st degree - outer layer of skin, red & sore
2nd degree - outer layer (epidermis) and inner layer (dermis) affected. Blistering, painful.
3rd degree - through all layers of skin, white or charred skin, can cause shock.

[broadsword]

Sorry to dispute but ANY burn can cause shock!
And on 3rd degree it is automatically assumed they will be in shock and will need shock treatment. First aid courses do com in handy

.. Especially when the company pays for them

[EnigmaticBiker]

No it doesn't have to burn to the bone, and probably wouldn't except on fingers and nose.

1st degree - outer layer of skin, red & sore
2nd degree - outer layer (epidermis) and inner layer (dermis) affected. Blistering, painful.
3rd degree - through all layers of skin, white or charred skin, can cause shock.

Glad you posted that accident, its often easy for people to get complacent about the risks of handling reactive materials.

At least he can still see, imagine that burn on someones' face

I always use safety equipment, I don't want my next flash to be my last.
And I like playing the guitar, with both hands.

Simon

[Frozentech]

Sorry to dispute but ANY burn can cause shock!
And on 3rd degree it is automatically assumed they will be in shock and will need shock treatment. First aid courses do com in handy

.. Especially when the company pays for them

Yes, I've taken a few.

[GBthriller]

I dont know how many of you guys or gals could handle that kind of set back, but this working man would be seriously impacted by that kind of injury.

And to think that it happened to him of all people. He's THE guy on ball milling. **EDIT: I thought this happened to LLoyd Sponenburgh, I misread it.** IMO steel in a ball mill just sounds too risky, I use brass and think its great, especially after being stuck with lead for so long. With just residue, i'd never have thought that would happen, so live and learn.

Thanks again and again for helping us stay safe!

**EDIT: What happened to the picture?? Does anyone have a copy they would send me?**

Edited by GBthriller, 12 December 2005 - 05:01 PM.