11 replies to this topic

[Strobe]

Hi folks,

I read that you can use a coffee grinder to break down some componants but I am not entirely sure I am clear on which situations this is safe for. I'm pretty sure this is a horrid idea for flash and BP and metals etc but can you use the same one for different fuels like suplhur and charcoal? Also are they ok for a less reactive oxidizer like KN03 or are all oxidizers a bad idea.

Do these rules apply to glass blenders as well (The kind you might mix frozen margaritas in for instance) or should they be avoided entirely because they are made of glass?

If someone would layout the safety rules for grinders, I would very much appreciate it.

Strobe

[Mortartube]

Ideally a grinder for oxidisers and one for fuels would be a good idea.

I use a single Tefal coffee grinder for both and I have had no problems. I only tend to grind KNO3 and charcoal in it, as well as cat litter. To clean it out after Kno3 or Charcoal, I just grind a little cat litter and then discard it. Cheap and effective.

I wouldn't recommend the glass type, as some hardwood charcoals may crack the container. If you grind small quantities and clean it out before grinding a different chemical it should be okay. DO NOT grind mixtures of oxidiser and fuel (s). I also would not grind any metals in it as the fine flake may get into the motor and cause a fire or shock.

[Strobe]

Thanks for the info. I'll look for a couple of cheap grinders and keep my oxidizers and fuels separate.

Do you know if it is possible to get fine mesh particle sizes by using a coffee grinder or is a ball mill still required to make a reasonable BP? I checked into my case tumbler (similar to a rock tumbler) and it does not appear that it would be recommended for ball milling BP or other oxiderizer/fule mixes. Apparently its fine for single componant milling.

I'm wondering if I can grind the sulphur and charcole together and the KNO3 separately and then perhaps use the CIA method to combine them minus he ball milling part.

[Mortartube]

You will still need a ball mill ideally for good BP. Milling and corning does more than just makes fine grain powders.

Coffee grinders do make very fine powders. I have used a piece of material from womens tights as a sieve before over the bottom of a margerine container with the bottom cut out. NOT FOR MIXTURES single components only. This was a quick and ready solution to an immediate need and I would recommend a proper sieve.

I can get airfloat charcoal and talcum fine KNO3 with this method, although there is no substitute for a proper sieve with a known mesh size. Just sieve the stuff as it comes out of the coffee mill and place anything that doesn't pass the mesh back into the grinder for more processing.

You could grind sulphur and charcoal together, but as sulphur is usually quite fine and often doesn't need grinding (just sieving), just grind charcoal on it's own. You can always pre grind and sieve charcoal, then store it when you have half an hour to kill, it's ready for whenever you need it then.

There is a lot of info on these forums about ball milling and many more knowledgeable people here than I, on the subject.

I have one and it is an invaluable piece of equipment that will save you a lot of mess that is present with the CIA method.

[cooperman435]

If you can be bothered to buy or make a ball mill I stongly suggest it as the powdering capabilities are leagues above what is achievable with any type of grinder.

I bought myself an old meat mincing machine (crank handle thingy) that I use to crush the charcoal into very small grit first then just weigh this and the other components into the ball mill which does all the rest.

I only really need te grinder for lumpwood charcoal for stars and core burning motors as its so tough whereas white pine charcoal can be easily crushed with your hands in a plastic bag small enough to weigh easily then again let the ball mill do the work.

the cia method will only really produce decent BP if the charcoal and sulphur have been pre ball milled anyway and still then it will not be as good as proper ballmilled bp of the same ingrediants.

Building a ball mill isnt that hard and Ive knocked up a few designs so pm me if u need a hand.

[Strobe]

Sorry for the delay in responding, been busy the past few days.

I have a rock tumbler that I have been told is capable of being used as a ball mill, except that it would not be recommended for 3 componant milling. I assume this is due to spark hazzads due to the way this device is designed.

So I can mill the KNO3 separately from the Charcole and Sulphur just not all together. If I got all three componants milled well separately and combined them using the CIA method and corned the resulting mxture, would this BP be usable or am I wasting my time? I recognize that this isnt going to be optimal in any way, just wondering if it would be workable, perhaps needing more of this type of BP for lift charges etc.

Buying or building a proper mill isnt out of reach but I have concerns regarding a safe place to operate a ball mill being used to mill BP with all componants at once. Is milling all three componants together the main factor or can they each be brought to very fine powders separately and combined after?

-Strobe

[hangusman]

if you get a coffee grinder (electric only) you can grind aluminium foil into a powder. Aluminium powder.

[Strobe]

if you get a coffee grinder (electric only) you can grind aluminium foil into a powder. Aluminium powder.

Thanks, I think I'd run across that somewhere else as well but had since forgotten about it. How fine can you get the aluminium that way? I assume that would only yield a granularty suitable for creating sparks in fountains etc? Another item to add to the list of things you can make at home at least.

-Strobe

[starseeker]

Sorry for the delay in responding, been busy the past few days.

I have a rock tumbler that I have been told is capable of being used as a ball mill, except that it would not be recommended for 3 componant milling. I assume this is due to spark hazzads due to the way this device is designed.

So I can mill the KNO3 separately from the Charcole and Sulphur just not all together. If I got all three componants milled well separately and combined them using the CIA method and corned the resulting mxture, would this BP be usable or am I wasting my time? I recognize that this isnt going to be optimal in any way, just wondering if it would be workable, perhaps needing more of this type of BP for lift charges etc.

Buying or building a proper mill isnt out of reach but I have concerns regarding a safe place to operate a ball mill being used to mill BP with all componants at once. Is milling all three componants together the main factor or can they each be brought to very fine powders separately and combined after?

-Strobe

Hi Strobe,
just mill the charcoal and sulpher together (two componant milling )and use the cia method to incorparate
the kno3,granulate the bp and this will give you a very usable lift powder etc.
vince.

[Strobe]

Hi Strobe,
just mill the charcoal and sulpher together (two componant milling )and use the cia method to incorparate
the kno3,granulate the bp and this will give you a very usable lift powder etc.
vince.

Thanks Vince,

I was hoping I could do what you suggest above. I'm sure its not ideal , not being able to ball mill the powder obtained from the CIA method, but hopefully it will be somewhat usable.

-Strobe

[starseeker]

Thanks Vince,

I was hoping I could do what you suggest above. I'm sure its not ideal , not being able to ball mill the powder obtained from the CIA method, but hopefully it will be somewhat usable.

-Strobe

Hi strobe,
this is the technique that i have been using for my b.p for the last few months and it is very usable,the biggest shell i have made so far weighed 170g and it lifted that no problem.You just have to use a little bit more to compensate for the slower burn rate,also it is a very usefull method for charcoal streamer comps etc.In Ian Von Maltitz book,black powder manufacturing,testing&optimizing,he favours this method due to the increased safety over three componate milling,
have fun,
vince.

[hangusman]

Thanks, I think I'd run across that somewhere else as well but had since forgotten about it. How fine can you get the aluminium that way? I assume that would only yield a granularty suitable for creating sparks in fountains etc? Another item to add to the list of things you can make at home at least.

-Strobe

Yer well its good for fountains and i could use it for thermite. It becomes air float but to get it right down u have to do it for ages. Also do it in short intervals cos mine shortcircuited and broke