10 replies to this topic

[pyrotrev]

Now I know quite a bit about pyro legislation (I find reading MSER at night helps me sleep better when I'm feeling stressed ), but does anyone know about scheduled poisons. To be exact, if I'm intending have 10Kg of barium nitrate on my premises do I have to register with anyone? (I take the secure cabinet is undoubtedly necessary).

[Andrew]

Now I know quite a bit about pyro legislation (I find reading MSER at night helps me sleep better when I'm feeling stressed ), but does anyone know about scheduled poisons. To be exact, if I'm intending have 10Kg of barium nitrate on my premises do I have to register with anyone? (I take the secure cabinet is undoubtedly necessary).

Business premisis??? or at home?

[YT2095]

ewwww, a Very good question asked by the OP, I`m also interested about hearing this too, although mine is not for Pyro reasons per se, so it may not apply to me?

but a General Lab.

edited to add: and in my case I guess you Could consider it a Home Lab, as it`s not Business premises exactly.

Edited by YT2095, 25 October 2007 - 12:49 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

There must be a way to do this lawfully as zinc and precious metal plating is done from cyanide solutions and I think that's poisonous! We used to have literally tonnes of KCN at work and Cr2O3 as well. Tis a requirement to show due need for the materials, due care in their use and storage, and due diligence in their security. If you have a pyro factory you will already have a contact at the HSE probably at several levels. Ask for their guidance.

[Andrew]

cyanide solutions and I think that's poisonous!

lmfao look at it the wrong way and it'll kill you!!!

Cr₂O₃ is not toxic as such, trivalent chromium is pretty safe.

On an answer note, are you looking to sell or use internally (not eating it by the way)?

[YT2095]

Cyanide solns kept Basic are reasonably safe (no HCN is given off), although by skin contact or ingestion it can still hurt you! but then I`m also sure you have (like I do) Alkyl Nitrite and Thio soln as a preloaded injection as an antidote also, that would be Law in a factory/Work area.

I have Sodium Cyanide here too, I think the Scary part is that only 80% of people can smell it, the other 20% can`t!
and the smell acts as a reasonable warning.

and before anyone goes Crazy, H2S (the rotten eggs smell) is far more toxic, and I`m sure as Pyro`s you`ve all smelled That at some time or another.

[BrightStar]

My Dad once had an accident while distilling cyanide and had to run from the lab, grabbing amyl nitrate antidote ampoules as he went... He said that getting a strong whiff of the 'bitter almonds' was very scary indeed...

I guess the usual H & S considerations would apply to storing barium nitrate. The civil liabilities would likely be as onerous as any criminal ones if, for example it was flooded and washed into a watercourse.

Edited by BrightStar, 26 October 2007 - 01:43 PM.

[YT2095]

Barium salts are pretty short lived in the environment, they soon become the insoluble sulphate species and are rendered inert.
Cyanides are quite easily oxidised and turned into cyanATEs that are also quite harmless to the environment.

Yes these chems are toxic, but they are Easily disabled too


edited to add: as a further Safety antidote, IF you have stupidly consumed a soluble barium salt, drink a strong soln of Magnessium Sulphate (Epsom salts), yes it`s a laxative and may give you the shits next day, but you WILL see the next day

Edited by YT2095, 26 October 2007 - 02:07 PM.

[pyrotrev]

My Dad once had an accident while distilling cyanide and had to run from the lab, grabbing amyl nitrate antidote ampoules as he went... He said that getting a strong whiff of the 'bitter almonds' was very scary indeed...

I had an equally nasty close call when wandering round the back of a friends slurry (=cow poo) store, whilst he was (unbeknown to me) stirring it. Got a big lung-full of H2S laden air, naturally a bit put out by the pong, which then started to go away. Remembered just in time that the first thing it does in dangerous concentrations is to knock out your sense of smell, so started to leg it - 50 yards on I went really dizzy, started to stagger a bit, but luckily in fresh air by then, so was OK after 5 mins deep breathing.

Regarding the Ba(NO3)2 storage, business premises probably (I have my own little workshop) - what difference does that make please Andrew?

Edited by pyrotrev, 26 October 2007 - 04:45 PM.

[YT2095]

well, I`m in no way (honestly I`m not) trying to undermine your experience there, I`m sure what you felt was indeed quite real, and about it taking your smell out is quite true also, but I do think your mate stiring it would have experienced the same, also Panic (why you ran) will also contribute to the dizzy feeling as well might the Other gases present (most quite flammable and we know what Solvent abuse does).

Tiredness headache(ish) is the latter Warning sign for H2S.

[pyrotrev]

well, I`m in no way (honestly I`m not) trying to undermine your experience there, I`m sure what you felt was indeed quite real, and about it taking your smell out is quite true also, but I do think your mate stiring it would have experienced the same, also Panic (why you ran) will also contribute to the dizzy feeling as well might the Other gases present (most quite flammable and we know what Solvent abuse does).

Tiredness headache(ish) is the latter Warning sign for H2S.

As I found out later, there's signs around the store (on the other side!) warning of poisonous gases - slurry gases have poisoned a few farmers in the past apparently. The stirring is done by a remote controlled motorised thing, for obvious reasons. It might very well have been a dose of some other gases that got me (I wonder what other heavy gases come out of fermenting poo?), but the smell fading was quite worrying, and I didn't feel well for a good 1/2 hour. Panic is something I try to reserve for times when it's half an hour to go before we fire a show, and the firing system doesn't check out .
Anyway back to poisons legislation.

Edited by pyrotrev, 26 October 2007 - 05:06 PM.