12 replies to this topic

[Gazza]

Hi, I am considering starting my own pyro chemcials supply business aimed at supplying both the professional and amatueur (hobbyist) pyrotechnics markets with pyrotechnics chemicals. Every aspect needs to be covered- the legal side relating to supply of chemicals to the general public, chemical safety, chemical storage and bulk supply of chemicals, not forgetting start-up costs. If I decide to start my own chemical supply business, I want to ensure that I do so legally and professionally- I do not intend to be the next kno3.com!
What could I do to ensure that the chemicals do not end up in the wrong hands (there is the potential for chemical misuse)?
Any advice would be appreciated,
Thanks.

[marble]

Don't sell any drug percussors (just the major ones)
Cancel suspicious orders (perc and flake al)
Don't promote yourself as pyro shop

If you really want to get tough you could take a look at what skylighter does but i think thats more harmful than helpful

Dont advertise yourself for pyro - keep it looking professional (keten, inoxia etc)

Edited by marble, 06 November 2007 - 02:18 PM.

[Gazza]

Don't sell any drug percussors (just the major ones)
Cancel suspicious orders (perc and flake al)
Don't promote yourself as pyro shop

If you really want to get tough you could take a look at what skylighter does but i think thats more harmful than helpful

Dont advertise yourself for pyro - keep it looking professional (keten, inoxia etc)

[Gazza]

Keten and Skylighter sell a vast range of pyro chemicals- everything that a professional and amateur pyro could possibly need. Unfortunately, Skylighter can not ship overseas; and with Keten, there's the expensive shipping costs.
I might be able to fill a niche in the UK amateur and professional pyro market if I set-up a UK-based pyro chemical company stocked with a vast range of chemicals comparable with the likes of Keten and Skylighter.

[Asteroid]

Might? There is definately a gap in the market here and I don't know why it hasn't been filled before. Inoxia is great but there are a limited range of chems, if steve is willing to tell you it might be worth finding out that. As for staying safe, I definately think that you should have an age limit on some chemicals and anyone who is ordering suspiciously, contact them up and see what they have to say. Chances are any kewls will only know one composition to make with flake al so a few quick questions will probably sort it out

Edited by Asteroid, 06 November 2007 - 05:01 PM.

[Andrew]

Ironic this, Gazza, take a look at Inoxia's address, you might be a little surprised!

[phildunford]

Having run such a business for a couple of years, I can tell you, you are not going to make your fortune doing it!

The main problem is that the prices you charge will be in direct relation to how 'above board' you are.

If you store properly and ship properly, and vet your customers, then your prices will be higher and you will be less likely to get business. That's not advice to ignore these things by the way...

My personal take on vetting customers is 'Caveat Emptor' and stuff the nanny state. However if you were to sell 5Kg of Perc and German dark to someone, and they killed themselves/ someone else, you can be pretty sure that the legal-eagles would hold you responsible and not the idiot that did it.

I suspect that it would be advisable to have some kind of liability insurance against this, and that would cost you too...

You would also need a way to legally sell poisons (like Barium Nitrate) and I'm not sure if this is even possible.

This is not meant to be negative - we need more suppliers but there is a lot to think about. Good luck!

[Arthur Brown]

There are significant issues with your target market. If you can show that you are a trade only supplier (clients have VAT number and business premses or the like) then the purchases can be assumed to have taken care with the purcgase storage and use of the product. If your client is a private individual then you must assure yourself that they are competent to use the product prior to selling to them. --That's why some places are "trade Only"

However :|| Andrew do NOT reinvent the wheel!

[Andrew]

You would also need a way to legally sell poisons (like Barium Nitrate) and I'm not sure if this is even possible.

It's not. As it is a schedule 1 poison it is illegal to sell it retail. The only person allowed to sell it retail is a qualified and registered pharmacist!!!! They cost about £45k per annum to hire!!! I can tell you now that all the chemical sales for pyro, from all the companies in the UK combined do not even generate that much cash!!! Thus there is no way to sell it legally! Unless you sort something out with a friend of a friend so that they are on the books and work intermittently to cover the poisons sales! Them you have distance selling rules on poisons, they are very very vague. Just on a last note for poisons, even Barium Carbonate is a schedule 1 poison, there is an exception where it is sold as rat killer, in which it is schedule 2, which means you can sell it if you are on the poisons register.

Having run such a business for a couple of years, I can tell you, you are not going to make your fortune doing it!

Absolutely spot on there. Even if you supplied the rest of the EU (legally using an ADR courier at £90 a go), you still would not be able to make a living out of it. I too know this for a fact!

However :|| Andrew do NOT reinvent the wheel!

I'm lost now, please elaborate?

[Steve]

Andrew, they're called List 1 and List 2 poisons.

[dr thrust]

hmm, ive seen barium carbonate for sale at pottery suppliers how are they doing it?

[Arthur Brown]

"However :|| Andrew do NOT reinvent the wheel!

I'm lost now, please elaborate?"

Meaning repeat what Andrew said ( "take a look at Inoxia's address, you might be a little surprised!" ). There is a chem supplier in the GU postcode area already Far better you work together than compete for what business there really is.

Soluble Barium salts (inc Nitrate ) are noted poisons because they are soluble Barium carbonate is not as poisonous as it is insoluble. See the pinned post somewhere on here "dangers of soluble barium salts"

[Steve]

For the record, and future searchers:
Setting up a company like Skylighter, with a "Vast" range of chemicals is not a simple task. The minimum size of bag to buy is really 25kg, anything less and there is no room for a profit margin. These cost between £30 and £300 each, depending on the chemical. To just start up with a vast collection of products you need a vast amount of cash to start with. Inoxia started with £500 2 years ago, and so can not really offer Skylighter ranges of chemicals yet. Also, you need somewhere to put all these chemicals, and you need an address that you can receive these chemicals, which you will most likely get delivered. You'll need to rent out a place to keep all these, and you'll need to sell enough in your very first month to pay the first months rent, this will require one hell of a marketing campaign.
Then you have the law, there is a lot of it to consider it took me a year of part time study to be confident that we could start up a company legally. I consider this information intellectual property and would never freely divulge a concise write up on the topic, although I can help on specifics.

Or you could go the KNO3.COM way, and sell as much of anything to anyone in any country, breaking any law that gets in your way, make a mint. But finally find yourself in an Arizona (was it there? I think so) prison.