10 replies to this topic

[spectrum]

I am sure this will provoke some comment and certain readers will think I am mad, but bear with me.

When I first licensed my factory (with a view to making things which others were rushing to import from the far East) I was inundated with comments which, essentially suggested that I was barking mad and that I should accept the demise of the U.K. industry and stop being daft.

Since that time I have never had a quiet week, we manufacture various items 5 days a week - all of which COULD be made in China but (being as I am based in the East Midlands) none are.

I understand that last year, the Chinese manufacturers raised their prices by 8%, this year they plan to do so to the tune of 30%. What about the future?

Looking at some of the rubbish peddled out by certain manufacturers, we were engaged to destroy a load of stuff this year - big empty coloured cases with pathetic little squat tubes hidden inside producing the actual effect (they were literally importing air cavities) I would say that there is more to promote a quality British made product range now than mere nostalgia.

We rescued a lot of equipment from Standard fireworks and produce tooling within our own well equipped machine shop on a weekly basis - three sets of star pumps this weekend rushed through for a production job next week. I mention this only to silence the critics who might say I am talking bo****ks!

I personally feel that the decisions to transfer production to the Far East were based not entirely on need but to a degree on greed - again this may attract criticism but I was actually working in the industry when this happened and saw the demise with my own eyes. Very sad.

Any views would be valued (as long as they are the same as mine!!!!!) and, for the record, I applaud the spirit of this organisation which may well, in the future, furnish the skills of a resurrected industry.

Paul M.

[rr22]

I am staggered by the short term profit led rush to outsource our industrial base,of course once we no longer have the means/skills to produce a given product they have us by the short and curlies,and re starting from scratch is often not viable once the skill base is lost.
Good for you for preserving a valuable resource,though I doubt the government agree.
Many products sell for a premium if there is a clear quality difference,there is a thread about packaging rip-off's on here,
Perhaps a few "side by side" comparisons would boost your cause?
Where can one purchase these lovingly"hand crafted" pieces?

[Mortartube]

I agree with you Paul.

When I worked for Stuart Orr at Wells, we made 4" & 5 " colour cylinder shells with 3 large titanium salutes in them. Owing to the small setup then, these had to fall by the wayside whilst other items were manufactured, but enquiries for them were frequent. 65mm preloaded mines were also a staple item even thought they were coming in from China at a lower price.

Gerbs and portfires were the real bread and butter and I think large gerbs will still have a market. Howards of Australia did (and possibly still do) a good trade in large 7lb gerbs or bigger.

I believe that there is a market too for British made stuff.

[Arthur Brown]

The Chinese have a tradition of fireworks and so have the British. The Chinese had almost limitless cheap labour which allowed very cheap prices, as firework costs have to include a huge proportion for labour.

As the Chinese push up their desired return on the work then the price goes up and the balance of competition moves.

Yes the planned increases in price could open a market for British made fireworks. Also then there would be some hope that labelling would be responsibly applied and testing correctly done BEFORE the fireworks land on these shores.

[spectrum]

My impression is that China is a rapidly changing country and that the average man on the street gets, (though his or her work making consumer goods for the fat, rich westerners!) a taste of life over here which they are increasingly aspiring to share in. And rightly so.

The first time I visited China I found myself travelling around a place stuck in the middle ages, the second time (same place) I was slap bang in the middle (at times) of a poor imitation of New York, badly copied skyscrapers and Los Angeles style hotels had replaced shanty town street markets - LITERALLY - in the space of three years. Young lads and girls were scooting about on vespalike modes of transport along the country tracks wearing rip-off designer tracksuit tops and trainers. Now the point I am making is this. These people are not going to want to make shitty little fireworks, which are difficult (or near impossible) to transport across to the other side of the world when the big cheeses in their homeland are proposing the manufacture of iPods, mobile phones and other such wonders of the 21st century - this is surely obvious.

To illustrate the point, during visit No.1 I requested to see a match factory. In Liu Jang I was told, there were 47 of them. This was purely a point of interest (I would like to see Spectrum making matches one day but that is another story). Visit No.2 the same request, this time for a commercial reason because I had to source bengal matches for the company sponsoring my visit. This time all of the match factories had closed because it was not viable to produce thses goods there - the re-located, I believe, to India.

Bear in mind that Octavius Hunt still produce these items in the U.K. (or at least they did until recently).

I am certain that the growing economy fuelling an over ambitious (and occassionally arrogant) workforce combined with rising inflation and a logistical nightmare (who wants to ship an explosive containerised hazardous cargo alongside 399 containers of very high value computerised electrical goods) will precipitate a marked change in the way things are done.

Maybe three decades after the policies of Mrs Thatchers government which turned us away from manufacture and into service industries (if you don't count those which were exported as well - dial up a call centre!) we could be coming full circle. And I fully expect a number of those contributing to this forum featuring in that industry. Better go now. Ony my soap-box, had four pints and talking politics on a fireworks forum - bad show!

[David]

Spectrum- what fireworks do you manufacture- do you have a brand name, where can they be bought etc? I would be very interested in trying them! Assuming they arn't cat 4, of course.

[pyromaniac303]

You may be surprised but actually China seem to be heading a similar way to us. As the country become more developed the employees demand higher wages, have more disposable income and start to head towards better paid jobs and more service industries rather than manufacture. All the demand for higher wages is pushing product prices up, so expect your electronic goods, and possibly pyrotechnics in the next 20 or 30 years to be made in India or Africa, where wages still havent caught up with the rest of the world. I have already seen this happening in the electronics company I work for.

Manufacture will only really head back to this country permanently, when most/all countries have become developed to a similar level and there is no 'cheap labour' as such, so that the cost of shipping is no longer economical.

Maybe there will be times in between when factories are being shut down in China, and transferred to India and Africa, when product prices are higher than normal and a couple of UK manufacturers will be able to start operation, though I can't see this being sustainable.

Will be quite a few years before manufacturing in the UK, to the whole UK consumer market, becomes economical, though as spectrum has found, there are many specialist applications that people are willing to pay enough to justify it.

Edited by pyromaniac303, 05 January 2008 - 09:51 PM.

[David]

Its worth pointing out that some of the biggest Firework Companies are Chinese, and fireworks are somewhat of a Chinese "art." Its not the case that Western Firms are simply exploiting China ( unlike, eg sportwear). Standard for example were actually bought out by Black Cat, a Chinese firm.

In the long term the Chinese firms may well remain loyal to Chinese manufacture, even with rising prices.

[spectrum]

[quote name='David' date='Jan 5 2008, 09:20 PM' post='41643']
Spectrum- what fireworks do you manufacture- do you have a brand name, where can they be bought etc? I would be very interested in trying them! Assuming they arn't cat 4, of course.


I actually don't manufacture fireworks any more, we produce miscellaneous pyrotechnic devices, the sorts of things that were once made as "extra bits and bobs" by the firework factories in addition to their main product range. At the moment we are busy with Smokes and Thunderflashes and other similar activity pyrotechnics for the Paintball and Airsoft trades, charges for quarrying and a reactive target which explodes when struck by an air gun pellet.

I used to make Portfires, Lances and mines but the constant gloating reminders and warnings about how cheap the next expected batch from China was going to be and how they had really cracked their quality problems eventually wore thin. Basically, customers wanted the stuff but felt cheated at paying more than 3p per unit (around a third of the cost of the raw materials over here!)

I used to work for Astra Fireworks - the REAL Astra fireworks (someone else is using the name now to front imported stuff). During my time there I gathered and kept every formulation I could, bearing in mind Astra bought out Rainbow Fireworks and we had people there who had worked around the industry - Wells, Pains, Brocks - I now have an extensive archive.

For the future: We are planning to introduce Cat4 Maroons (Aerial) and certain other items, Daylight Shells. I don't have any ambitions to make cat 2 and cat 3 fireworks but a very open mind, I have been asked to produce small shells in very large numbers for the European domestic market through our French distributor but we haven't responded positively to this yet. Apparently they DO NOT want to deal with China and have legal and logistical issues in so doing in France.

I reckon small selection boxes, high quality and following traditional lines and designs would be feasible if we weren't so busy on the other stuff, the main thing for me is keeping the option alive in the event that the opportunity becomes commercially attractive, I embrace competition and hope that through this forum I will encounter some in the form of a resurrected fireworks industry one day (I believe I will too!)

[David]

I used to work for Astra Fireworks - the REAL Astra fireworks (someone else is using the name now to front imported stuff).

Yeah- The Cosmic group. Now nothing more than a brand name.

A bit pointless really keeping it going- its just generic Chinese stuff, from what I've seen, but I guess the point behind it is that shops that only stock Pyro from one Company (eg Garden Centres) can make appear like they are stocking several different lines.

Quality selection boxes are a good idea- and I think there would be a market for traditional, quality and above all varied selection box items. I'm sure that they would be popular wth enthusiasts ( look how popular the selection boxes thread was on this board)- I would certainly be interested.

Edited by David, 06 January 2008 - 12:12 PM.

[Gigantic Crab!!!]

The vast majority of punters would not be interested in paying over the odds for UK made fireworks.
Simple fact.
Enthusiasts are in too small a minority to make it economically viable.

With the exception of Kimbolton (who import the vast majority of their goods anyway), are there any other UK companies actually making fireworks?