17 replies to this topic

[six-five-two]

Hello, I recently bought strontium carbonate. I added to to my smoke mix at 6:4:2 KNO3:Sugar:Strontium Carbonate. I mixed it well and ignited it and there was no coloured smoke. I tried 6:4:4 and that didn't colour the smoke either. Can someone give me a formula or something that can make my smoke red using strontium carbonate? Thanks in advanced.

[rocket]

Your never gunna get red smoke with strontium carbonate, you need IIRC an organic dye. Also as far as I'm aware you cant make coloured smoke with KNO3/SU

Edited by rocket, 06 April 2008 - 03:32 AM.

[six-five-two]

Dammit. Oh and organic dye doesn't work.

[Arthur Brown]

From COPAE/Davis

Colored smokes, pyrotechnic compositions which
contain colored substances capable of being sublimed without an
undue amount of decomposition. The substances are volatilized
by the heat of the burning compositions to form colored vapors
which quickly condense to form clouds of finely divided colored
dust. Colored smokes are used for military signaling, and recently
have found use in colored moving pictures. Red smokes, for example,
were used in the "Wizard of Oz." Colored smoke compositions
are commonly rammed lightly, not packed firmly, in cases,
say 1 inch in internal diameter and 4 inches long, both ends of
which are closed with plugs of clay or wood. Holes, y± inch in
diameter, are bored through the case at intervals on a spiral line
around it; the topmost hole penetrates well into the composition
and is filled with starting fire material into which a piece of
black match, held in place by meal powder paste, is inserted.
According to Faber,57 the following-listed compositions were used
in American airplane smoke-signal grenades during the first
World War.
.
SMOKES p123 COPAE
..............................red
Potassium chlorate.....1
Lactose.....................1
Paranitraniline red......3

for other colours
Auramine --yellow
Chrysoidine --green
Indigo ---- blue

are used

Smokes by their nature STAIN they stain cloth, clothes, concrete, paint, wood, earth, grass -everything.

Somewhere on here is the supplier of smoke colours that is used by many major users, for aerobatic smokes etc. Search til you find them.

Buy yourself a decent text book.

Do not confuse colour in smokes with colour in flames the chemical mechanisms are TOTALLY different.

Edited by Arthur Brown, 06 April 2008 - 07:29 AM.

[six-five-two]

I see...

Well is there any place I can obtain potassium chlorate locally (like used for a fertilizer or something)?

[Mumbles]

Organic dye most certainly does work. You probably just wern't using the right one, or the right formulation. KNO3/Sucrose will probably burn to hot to be functional. Trying one formulation with a random red dye isn't quite enough to rule out all organic dyes as not working.

[six-five-two]

Okay then. So you're thinking that the KNO3/Sucrose mixture is too hot that it just doesn't work? If so, then what can I add to make it burn at a lower temperture?

Edited by six-five-two, 08 April 2008 - 12:04 AM.

[Chrisn]

Okay then. So you're thinking that the KNO3/Sucrose mixture is too hot that it just doesn't work? If so, then what can I add to make it burn at a lower temperture?

pretty much nothing. Use a different sugar, lactose is used in a formula above

[Asteroid]

I may be jumping to conclusions a little here, but I'd say you're trying to put this together for airsoft or paintball purposes? My reccomendation to you is not to bother with coloured smoke. It's hard to reproduce to commercial quality and price without buying in bulk. White smoke can be made to work well if you use the paraffin mix though, so try that.

[portfire]

WARNING! This post may make me sound like a complete wolly, but here go's

Would it not be posible to use a composition that produces little flame but lots of gas, then mix in say, finely powdered colored chalk. The idea been the gas generated aerosols the powdered chalk. I know guardian (spelling) nitrate is a good gas producer.

Edited by portfire, 08 April 2008 - 11:24 AM.

[Asteroid]

While the concept sounds good I think it may be unsuitable, also, chalk dust would probably settle very quickly. I'd say this idea calls for a solution such as an air cannon, or like a fireball, except relace your creamer/napthalene/lycopodium with chalk?

Guanidine nitrate
Stability
May explode if heated. May be shock sensitive.
Toxicology
Toxic if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through the skin.

[portfire]

While the concept sounds good I think it may be unsuitable, also, chalk dust would probably settle very quickly. I'd say this idea calls for a solution such as an air cannon, or like a fireball, except relace your creamer/napthalene/lycopodium with chalk?

Guanidine nitrate
Stability
May explode if heated. May be shock sensitive.
Toxicology
Toxic if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through the skin.

I see where your coming from. Guanidine nitrate is out of the question then..

Yeah, the air cannon is probibly the better option, which is one of my future projects, so will try this. I have a tub of blue chalk for string lines, should look cool.

[Mumbles]

I don't think that chalk is brightly colored enough to be a good colored "smoke". You'd probably end up with pastel blue or pastel green cloud. A much more brightly colored choice would be powdered acrylic paint. The stuff is like talcum powder, and very vivid. I know this was used for some aerial effects. I would imagine that it would turn out pretty poorly for human breathing though, as well as the staining properties.

[Arthur Brown]

Pyro formulation experiments are best done from a known starting point. Most of the texts have some smoke formulae, several reliable ones are online too.

Research this forum and the whole www for a supplier of dyes for coloured smoke. Look through all the known texts for formulae that you can use, then buy the chemicals needed.

Pyro doesnt go as plan if you make unplanned substitutions in the formulae. They may malfunction more or less violently than you planned.

[six-five-two]

Well I am just making coloured smoke b**bs because, well I just find them kind of interesting. I don't paintball or anything.
Mumbles, will powdered acrylic paint work with just Potassium Nitrate and Sugar? Or will I have to use lactose or something isntead?