22 replies to this topic

[fruitfulsteve]

i've been experimenting with ammonium perchlorate and various metals (various mesh sizes) 70/30 initially, german dark and 400# mg/al topped the table as expected.however when i moved to a 50/50 ratio gd and mg/al performance improved a bit,but the zn 200# and 300# improved a lot allmost to gd mg/al standards burn rate wise only more smoke and a nice greeny/blue flame, any thoughts ? .incase ya interested most of the other AL comps wouldn't light, FE powder sparked a bit (slowly) MG was ok and i forgot to do copper. i'm thinking of adding sulphur and i'm also open to suggestions charcoal or iron oxide maybe ?

[pyrotrev]

I would avoid anything containing magnesium unless you're going to dichromate passivate it - otherwise you'll end up with a hygroscopic mess and possible heating up! - aluminium is probably a better bet. A little bit of a catalyst (iron oxide, copper oxide or if you're a flash bugger copper chromite) will help speed up decomposition of the AP, and some organic fuel will give more thrust - I think the Thiokol space shuttle mix is listed somewhere on this forum.

[Potassium chlorate]

Shuttle booster
rocket propellant:

Ammonium perchlorate 69.9
Polybutadiene 12.04
Epoxy curing agent 1.96
Aluminum powder 16
Red iron oxide 0.07

Edited by Pyroswede, 17 February 2009 - 06:42 PM.

[fruitfulsteve]

thanks, i'm off to look up'polybutadiene' back soon!!
ffs

[Arthur Brown]

Polybutadiene is the synthetic rubber most like natural rubber. Raw it's as tough as serious gristle in steak, masticated in a two roll mill it becomes workable then goes tacky like blutac.

Rubbers have a huge energy content but in retail available forms they are very tough to work. Now! Could you use a liquid latex as fuel, mix lubricant, and grain binder. Go search Tiranti for latex.

[Richard H]

http://en.wikipedia....d_polybutadiene

[cooperman435]

On this subject Polybutadiene is used essentially as a rubber carrier and fuel in the composite engine cells as it helps prevent cell cracking due to its malleable nature.

Has anyone tried other rubber derivatives such as latex which I believe has to air dry? or silicon rubber (which is also uses a curing agent like Polybutadiene so large mouldings can be made) as a carrier and fuel?

[fruitfulsteve]

I would avoid anything containing magnesium unless you're going to dichromate passivate it - otherwise you'll end up with a hygroscopic mess and possible heating up! - aluminium is probably a better bet. A little bit of a catalyst (iron oxide, copper oxide or if you're a flash bugger copper chromite) will help speed up decomposition of the AP, and some organic fuel will give more thrust - I think the Thiokol space shuttle mix is listed somewhere on this forum.

thanks, i'll set of the rest of the MG mix tomorrow unless my dicromate turns up first. what do think of the ZN/NH4CLO4/S mix? the oxidiser certainly seems to help.
ffs

[fruitfulsteve]

Polybutadiene is the synthetic rubber most like natural rubber. Raw it's as tough as serious gristle in steak, masticated in a two roll mill it becomes workable then goes tacky like blutac.

Rubbers have a huge energy content but in retail available forms they are very tough to work. Now! Could you use a liquid latex as fuel, mix lubricant, and grain binder. Go search Tiranti for latex.

could i use latex gloves or ground up erasures disolved in petroleum spirit ? just a thought !!
ffs

[Arthur Brown]

Latex gloves and rubber bands are the only sources of unfilled rubber! Most rubber compounds are less than 50% polymer with added cure system, fillers, extenders, colours etc. Erasers will have huge filler and whitener content.

[fruitfulsteve]

Latex gloves and rubber bands are the only sources of unfilled rubber! Most rubber compounds are less than 50% polymer with added cure system, fillers, extenders, colours etc. Erasers will have huge filler and whitener content.

can you ball mill rubber bands? :-)
is it not avaliable in granuales or something?
ffs

[spanner]

Slightly OT, but styrene-butadiene rubber (SBR) is available OTC in the US from Ace Hardware (and others, surely) as a floor adhesive.

Ask for 12875 flooring adhesive. It is 98.7% SBR according to the MSDS. It has a small quantity of chalk in it, otherwise pure. Use naptha as the solvent. Almost as flexible as polybutene.

[knackers]

can you ball mill rubber bands? :-)
is it not avaliable in granuales or something?
ffs

get a few test tubes or small glass jars and place some Toluene, acetone, thiners, petrol and other solvents separately in each and throw in some chopped up rubber bands, watch and see wich solvents they disolve in , then you will have your unfilled rubber product,

make sure the NH4clo4 is compatable with the solvent,

[pyrotrev]

Other polyurethanes might be worth looking at as well: they're widely available as moulding compounds for sculptors etc. - anyone tried any??

[fruitfulsteve]

get a few test tubes or small glass jars and place some Toluene, acetone, thiners, petrol and other solvents separately in each and throw in some chopped up rubber bands, watch and see wich solvents they disolve in , then you will have your unfilled rubber product,

make sure the NH4clo4 is compatable with the solvent,

thanks do you mean celluose 'thinners' ? re compatible with nh4clo4 any i should defietly avoid?
ffs