24 replies to this topic

[AdmiralDonSnider]

I´ve recently been a lot into cylinder shells (mostly 3" size) and keep searching for some richly colored chlorate based formulas suitable for making cut stars.

Although some formulas give superb effects when replacing the perchlorate 1:1 with chlorate e.g. most organic star formulas given by Shimizu, good chlorate based formulas seem to be hard to find - maybe this comes from the fact that they are sometimes regarded very dangerous.

Getting rich colors seems to be a problem especially in the case of red and blue, where the performance of metallic perchlorate colors (e.g. Veline´s, Buell Red, AP colors) is very hard to achieve. The same is not true in the case of green where Ba(ClO3)2 makes rich colors possible.

Having followed the advices given by Fulcanelli, I haven´t used any perchlorate stars in cylinder shells yet. Despite the variations of specific formulas - is there a general guideline on how much to cut perchlorate stars smaller than their chlorate counterparts (to preserve burst density and burning duration)?

Thanks a lot!

[RFD]

Try Weingart"s book,quiet a few chlorate comps in it,but some of the comps are a bit user unfreindly, with the usual ppe i dont have any problems and of course good housekeeping,i personaly still use a lot of chlorate comps i like the easy lighting and good colours plus you save a bit on chlorine donor and i like using H3 for burst, a lot of the older comps use chlorates from the early days but some of the ingredients can be very hard to find so a bit of experimention(with the chlorate incompatabilitys in mind)is needed,i havnt tried cutting chlorate stars have always pumped or small star plate,i find chlorate stars burn a bit quicker than perc stars so make a little larger than than perc stars but with a prime on the perc they come out about size for size.

[MDH]

The best thing you can do, as I have said here before, is develop the star formulas yourself based on a few rules of thumb:

1. Use less fuels which depart a mess of compounds into the flame and desaturate the colour. If the fuel is also the same thing which departs colour then all the better (as well as the oxidizer).
2. Get a great chlorine donor.
3. Stay away from metallic fuels unless you are creating a red composition or a green one.

In the case of red, you probably don't want to work with chlorate at all unless you just have carbonates. Strontium nitrate, PVC and Magnalium create very rich red stars (and a rocket fuel if you know the art).

From personal experience chlorate stars don't burn too differently than perchlorate stars unless they are organically based. Chlorate is more unstable, in the presence of low tempature fuels it will react slightly quicker. I wouldn't recommend doubling the size of your stars but making them 1-2mm larger shouldn't hurt.

But to just "give you what you want" on this one, I'd have to say that simple chlorides in combination with chlorate and a fuel are quite beautiful. From experience. I used to make flares back when I made my own chlorate from copper chloride, potassium chlorate and sugar. Of course I had to keep these in a dry location but they were a suprisingly strong colour (and burned a little fast). I don't do it anymore due to the still inherent danger of copper chlorate forming and my whole composition going up one day but it should still work well with other chlorides.

-MDH

Edited by MDH, 26 February 2009 - 09:50 PM.

[seymour]

In the case of red, you probably don't want to work with chlorate at all unless you just have carbonates. Strontium nitrate, PVC and Magnalium create very rich red stars (and a rocket fuel if you know the art).

In the case of Green too. Potassium is fairly good at reducing the depth of this colour, so if you are going to add Potassium chlorate, only use a little bit.

If you have Barium chlorate, then you may as well do chlorate all the way! Note that it actually burns quite slowly, so stars might want to be smaller than their perchlorate counterparts.

Edited by seymour, 27 February 2009 - 12:27 AM.

[Creepin_pyro]

Joel Baechle's 'pyrocolor harmony' has some really great chlorate formulas. I'll post a few favourites of mine when I get a chance.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

That would be great. Baechle´s formulas seem to be hard to find - at least for me.

[phildunford]

Lancaster has some great chlorate stars in his book, intended for roman candles because of their fast burning properties.

Modern thinking would suggest these are too dangerous for shells. However such things were often used (by Brocks certainly), along with lampblack stars to reduce the dangers of detonation...

[portfire]

That would be great. Baechle´s formulas seem to be hard to find - at least for me.

Are you a member of Passfire ? You'll find them there

[Creepin_pyro]

I believe Passfire only has systems 4-7 on there, none of which utilise Chlorate. There are loads more in his book, including the more obscure and Chlorate-based ones.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Are you a member of Passfire ? You'll find them there

Nope. Anyway, I would be thankful if someone could share a few chlorate based here. In the meantime I started searching for Baechle´s script, but skylighter seems to be the only source available. I don´t want to pay for shipping/taxes again...

Concerning Lancasters formulas I´ve only tried his cut stars yet, replacing KP with chlorate. I believe the pumped star formulas are obtained in a very similar fashion. However, the color of the resin based stars is weaker (compared with metallic KP, resin AP stars) especially in the case of a SrCO3 based red - this is not surprising of course.
In the case of blue the unavailability of paris green is a problem (when someone wants to use chlorate stars for blue) - but I could be wrong on this one.

[Mumbles]

This is my favorite blue chlorate star. I got it from Dave Stoddard a few years ago:

"In keeping with the practice of remaining on topic for posts,
this is my favorite blue star comp (it is my modification of
a formula originally posted by Shimizu in FAST):

Blue Star

Potassium Chlorate ........ 64.5 %
Red Gum ................... 9.9
Cupric Oxide .............. 13.4
Parlon .................... 5.4
Charcoal .................. 2.0
SGRS (Binder) ............. 4.8

Lights easily, burns fast, good blue color."

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Thanks so far.

The blue star comp from FAST gives a nice light blue - I like it too. However the color is not so deep as in the case of AP formulas.


Noone out there who will share chlorate comps from Baechle??

[Bonny]

Thanks so far.

The blue star comp from FAST gives a nice light blue - I like it too. However the color is not so deep as in the case of AP formulas.


Noone out there who will share chlorate comps from Baechle??

IF I get my book back I can look them up, but it's out on loan ATM...

[Mumbles]

The modification made by Dave Stoddard shifts it to a much truer blue in my opinion. I've never shot them side by side, but I like it much better. I try to avoid AP blues due to priming and burst issues, but it's possible to make every bit as good of blues with perchlorates and chlorates.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

IF I get my book back I can look them up, but it's out on loan ATM...

Sounds nice, thanks.

The modification made by Dave Stoddard shifts it to a much truer blue in my opinion. I've never shot them side by side, but I like it much better. I try to avoid AP blues due to priming and burst issues, but it's possible to make every bit as good of blues with perchlorates and chlorates.

As far as I see the only thing changed is a replacement of 2% of the oxidizer with charcoal, which will make the comp burn faster. Shouldn´t change color at all, but I may be wrong.
If your right with the blue color (even without paris green), I appreciate that cause AP doesn´t come cheap while I´ve got loads of chlorate.