26 replies to this topic

[pyrodude]

hiya,
Can someone please tell me where to get zinc powder from and also sulphur anywhere except from labpak please help

[Phoenix]

Sulphur can be had from garden centres. I found it in every one I looked in. It seems to serve three purposes. One is as a soil acidifier (therefore - "Soil Acidifying Sulphur") and another other is as a greenhous fumigant. Look for metal tins labelled "Greenhouse Sulphur Candle." Finally there is "dusting sulphur" which is a fungicide. For me, as pyro chemicals go, sulphur is easy to get. (Then again it seems that 1kg bags of "nitrate of potash" line the shelves of garden centres for about ?1.20 in some places - not here). A tip: If you can get sulphur as a fine powder do so. The candles seem to be in prills, but the dusting sulphur should be fine. Ive used prills so far, but they are tricky to powder as if you try and grind it in a mortar it will stick to the mortar, kind of like wax. If you ball mill it it can be hard to clean the media, as sulphur isn't easy to wet. You'll also need to use another pestle and mortar or ball mill if you want to grind chlorate.

As for Zn _powder_, I can't help you there. However, many ceramics suppliers sell ZnO. In theory at least, this could be reduced with carbon to get you your zinc. With a bit of ingenuity you could probably build one of the abrasive Al grinders mentioned elswhere on the forum.

PS - I know I shouldn't jump to conclusions but zinc/sulphur rocket propellant is not generally very highly favoured by rocket builders as it is neither very safe nor a very good propellant. However, other people are far more qualified than I to talk about that.

Edited by Phoenix, 14 January 2004 - 05:41 PM.

[RegimentalPyro]

This Ballpen zinc/sulphur rocket experiment
from Salter claims to be safe for adults to teach, but only after an independant risk assessment.

I'd be extremely cautious if trying anything like this pyrodude...

Edited by RegimentalPyro, 14 January 2004 - 06:51 PM.

[Stuart]

Reduction of ZnO seems possible. After a short search on google it seems you will need tempratures of around 1300*C-1400*C. Not sure if charcoal will an external oxygen supply would produce those tempratures but you could make some coke and that will

Stuart

[Arthur Brown]

Zinc metal is used in roofing, but it is harder than Aluminium so powdered Zn by the Abrasive method may be better than the coffee grinder/mill method.

ZINC FUMES are very poisonous Care when heating please. zinc actually vapourises below welding temps.

[tajmiester]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

I've done a bit of smelting before (reduction of metal ores), copper and alike and its not easy. Zinc is that last metal that can be reduced by carbon and so even if it melts fairly easily smelting is a whole other matter. Zinc needs a temperature of AT LEAST 950?C otherwise no zinc. The big problem (and the one that makes this method of collecting zinc completely unrealistic) is that zinc evaporates at 908C which is well below this temperature and so when this superheated zinc vapour exits the crucible and hits the air it oxidises and leaves you with what you started with!!! The only possible way to make zinc this way would be to get a sealed crucible and some copper pipe going from the crucible into a bucket of cold oil (if you used water you would get zinc hydroxide). NOT practicle, though interestingly possible...

The realistic way to get the zinc is to leach the zinc oxide with sulphuric acid, neutralise it and then electrolise the salt using a lead anode and an aluminium cathode. (Still not great) So if you want my advise, just buy the stuff!

Tris

P.S. If anyone wants to smelt any easier metals that require high temps or want to make MgAl have a peek and my furnace diagram. Ive used it a couple of times and its great if you have a cheap source of nitrate and dont need the high temp for too long. The problem is to keep it going you need to keep adding the charcoal/nitrate mix though it doesnt need too much. A simpler version works by just adding nitrate prills to your charcoal fire around the crucible.

[alany]

Zinc is available in various mesh sizes for a number of different 'cover' applications. In fact last night I found out that it is used in dye baths, as a lady wrote to me asking where I got it after reading about my experiements on my website. Just say you want it for cold casting or sheridizing if your supplier is the suspicious type.

I got my from Australian Metal Powder Suppliers, but that isn't likely much help unless you are in AU. There was quite a lot going on eBay for a reasonable price last time I looked, the shipping might be expensive though.

Be very careful of micrograin rocket propellant! It is fairly energetic with an enormous burn rate, end-burners are the best configuration unless you have lots of experence and have really done the math. It has a low Isp despite its high density so even BP makes a better rocket, but it can be made into an nozzleless bottle rocket pretty easily. Loose it is like flash and makes a good report composition when made with zinc dust.

Zinc fumes aren't *that* poisonous BTW. They will make you feel really crap for a day or two on large exposure, but zinc fume fever's dangers are a bit of an urban legand. It has never been shown to cause permanent damage. Prudent avoidance is definately a good idea, because metal fume fever is not something you want to experence if you can avoid it, it makes you feel absoutely sh*t.

Edited by alany, 15 January 2004 - 06:50 AM.

[pyrodude]

Would the zinc from the middle of a AA battery work as zinc powder or does it have different properties

[Phoenix]

I'm probably the one that's wrong. I've done very little smelting of metal ores, and my theory was based soley on the fact than Zn is lower than C in my reactivity series. I stand corrected.

[tajmiester]

Zinc is more reactive and so in theory can be displaced by carbon. In anchient times this was done to make brass by putting copper strips in amoungst the zinc oxide. It would then absorb the zinc fumes and become brass. The problem is the only zinc you get is a zapour and so when it hits the air it oxidises and becomes zinc oxide.

See?

Tris

[Yugen-biki]

Several eyears ago I foud a good sorce off Zink. I?m sure you have a lot where you live. You can find Zn in ordinary batteries. The one with a graphite rod in the middle and NaNH3 (...?) paste in the container off zink. Here we call them "brown rock batteries" because off the brown Mn ore used to make them in the old times. I have made my own Zn + S fuel and it works good using Zn from batteries.
The only bad thing is all the angry eyes when you lute the "battery reuse container" (where U leave old batteries) :-)



But before you let your self lose on the batteries think off the danger off dissembling batteries! Acid, sharp edges. poisones chemicals...etc !!!!

Edited by Yugen-biki, 15 January 2004 - 06:41 PM.

[Steve]

A point to make about buying zinc, I bought some 300mesh atomized stuff, it is not the same as the flitter stuff wich is nigh on impossible to find. The atomized stuff would probably work fine in the rocket you mentioned, however if you are trying to make zinc spreader stars it is far from suitable and does not produce sparks but instead an interesting blue/green star. If you are still interested i could dig out the name of the place who sells zinc powder (also aluminium / iron / copper powder and other goddies).

Steve

Edited by Steve, 27 November 2005 - 09:49 PM.

[Richard H]

couldnt u heat limestone and put in a glass/whatever unmeltable box so when it vapourises u'll be able to catch the vapour on the sheet of whatever, like when u heat water and hold a tray above to stop it all vapourising?

Why would you want to do that? I might be missing something, but heating calcium carbonate does not yield Zinc!