22 replies to this topic

[whoof]

Can anyone say where they buy their powder please ?.
I have seen references to a '100g' rule yet the only supplier i caan find sells by the kilo.
100g would be adequate for my requirments.
What do i do ?
Apply for aquire and use for 1 kilo,
store for 100g, then destroy the remaining 900g ?.
Seems a bit wasteful.
I think i am unlikely to be granted a 1 Kg store cert at my location and it would be undesirable anyway.

[exat808]

Can anyone say where they buy their powder please ?.
I have seen references to a '100g' rule yet the only supplier i caan find sells by the kilo.
100g would be adequate for my requirments.
What do i do ?
Apply for aquire and use for 1 kilo,
store for 100g, then destroy the remaining 900g ?.
Seems a bit wasteful.
I think i am unlikely to be granted a 1 Kg store cert at my location and it would be undesirable anyway.

Ignore any reference to 100kg in respect of buying BP someone has got their wires crossed.

Most BP sold over the counter in UK is in 500g or 1kg tubs.
You could consider finding another BP cert holder near you who can transfer small quantities to you.

You will need either an Acquire Only or an Acquire and Keep Certificate from the Police.
Acquire Only means no storage. You acquire it, use it, and destroy or return what is left.
Acquire and Keep will permit the keeping of a max 15kg without the need to license the storage. The BP must be kept in a prescribed manner to avoid the need to apply separation distances.
The police will expect that the BP is kept securely and cannot be accessed by unauthorised persons.

[whoof]

Ignore any reference to 100kg in respect of buying BP someone has got their wires crossed.

Most BP sold over the counter in UK is in 500g or 1kg tubs.
You could consider finding another BP cert holder near you who can transfer small quantities to you.

You will need either an Acquire Only or an Acquire and Keep Certificate from the Police.
Acquire Only means no storage. You acquire it, use it, and destroy or return what is left.
Acquire and Keep will permit the keeping of a max 15kg without the need to license the storage. The BP must be kept in a prescribed manner to avoid the need to apply separation distances.
The police will expect that the BP is kept securely and cannot be accessed by unauthorised persons.

Thanks.

You could consider finding another BP cert holder near you who can transfer small quantities to you.

That would be the ideal scenario.
I do not know where to start though, cannot see the local police giving me details of holders somehow.

Any pyro people in W london or Oxfordshire areas who might oblige ?
I did ask on one of the shooting forums but had no takers.

Do you have a link to the storage requirments please, i did find it once but lost it.
I know about the storage box but am unclear on where i can locate it.

[Vic]

Out of interest what do you intend to do with your 100g, do you have a project in mind?

[whoof]

It is for the parachute ejection charge on a APCP powered rocket(s).

I have a project in mind (the girondel) but would want to buy the motors built.
I have been Modelling using the Estes series of motors, unfortunatley it looks as though i would need the E series motors to make it work and they are not legal here.
I would like to be able to attach the motors so that after burnout the motors could be jettisoned somehow (it improves the mass balance) .

[martyn]

Do you have a link to the storage requirments please, i did find it once but lost it.
I know about the storage box but am unclear on where i can locate it.

This site is pretty good for BP info or links to it.
From memory, as long as it's secure and not on an escape route, you can keep the box with 15Kg of it under your bed if you want.
Unfortunately, without beating around the bush, most of us on this site would be holding BP, if we did hold it, otherwise than in accordance with MSER.
A few people may hold it under the ticket of reloading or muzzle loading but if you use it for fireworks you are not using it for the legitimate reason for which you aquired it.
I think one member is currently making a 'test' application to see if the police will issue an aquire ond keep with the '100g experimentation' as the reason to aquire and keep. No news yet?
A well respected member of the forum who is involved with the issue of the certs has stated that he feels this would be acceptable, although when i asked my police force (which is also your police force) ELO the question he did look 'uncomfortable'
You would not apply to aquire 100g, if a cert is granted it would be for a max of 15Kg, up to you how much you wanted to keep up to that limit. You would aso need a RCA document to move it around. The link I gave explains it better than I can and if EXAT808 spots this thread he could give you chapter and verse.

[martyn]

Actually, on reading this thread properly, if you just wanted a bit of BP for an ejection charge you could just buy a firework and see if you could persuade any to leak out?

[Vic]

It is for the parachute ejection charge on a APCP powered rocket(s).I have a project in mind (the girondel) but would want to buy the motors built.

I know you said you hope to buy in APCP motors for your Girandola, but someone from the states with "honours maths, honours science, AP chemistry, the highest math class you could do," died last Saturday whilst working with APCP fuel/rockets.

My friend please be careful.

[whoof]

Hi vic,
Wires crosssed a bit i think.
The APCP rocket(s) are for my main interest and will be flown under the tutelige of UKRA using purchased, premanufactured propellant.
The BP is solely for the ejection charge.
Someone else mentioned letting a bit out of a firework, rockets are pressed powder AFAIK and solid. Loose powders i believe are often flash compound.
In any case demanufacturing a firework is illegal and UKRA will not stand for it.
Have to have the proper licences and supply.

The Girondel is purely down to a long facination of anything Rocket.
It would be made from purchased, built BP rockets (under fireworks legislation preferably).
Main problem is finding suitable rockets.
Estes are hardly ideal as a large part of them is delay / ejection charge.
Maths says it can be done, Austria proved it can be done, i have a theoretical model for a 3 stage one which looks good.
Just do not know where to get the bits.
Not interested in brewing my own motors as i do not have the knowledge / experience / manufacturing licence.
Above anything else , to work, the motors have to be consistent.

If you have a link to the accident i would be interested to see what he was doing.
(And what went wrong).

Hah. finally remembered how to spell purchased.

[BrightStar]

Here's the accident link guys, though not very informative:

http://www.pottsmerc...89490105865.txt

snert - I'm Oxfordshire based and might be able to help out. Feel free to drop me a PM.

[whoof]

Here's the accident link guys, though not very informative:

http://www.pottsmerc...89490105865.txt

snert - I'm Oxfordshire based and might be able to help out. Feel free to drop me a PM.

Thanks
Rather sad that

You have a PM

[Farnet]

The law is rather confusing in the UK, for example in the midlands, if you visit a gunshop in Derbyshire you can buy reloading powder without a licence but you do have to sign for it, in Nottinghamshire you need a licence, but in Leicestershire you don't need any proof of firearms certification or sign for anything, let proof of age etc.

I own an FAC, and was rather shocked at this lax attitude to reloading powders, so IMHO the guy who is doing the test case has a good chance at being able to purchase BP for a legitimate purpose, I know BP is under a seperate license and it is something I have been looking into for a few years.

Saying that I have tried many times with the leicestershire police and the local council and to get them to talk to each other and sort out some sort of display license for amature firework displays, as I have done the village display a couple of times but now refuse to do it as I an uncomfortable doing a display without insurance etc.... Meant to be for charity and people do sign a waiver, but I wouldn't think that would really stand up in court.

Both the council and the Police are very much in favour of it, but neither want to take ownership of this moving forward.

[exat808]

The law is rather confusing in the UK, for example in the midlands, if you visit a gunshop in Derbyshire you can buy reloading powder without a licence but you do have to sign for it, in Nottinghamshire you need a licence, but in Leicestershire you don't need any proof of firearms certification or sign for anything, let proof of age etc.

I own an FAC, and was rather shocked at this lax attitude to reloading powders, so IMHO the guy who is doing the test case has a good chance at being able to purchase BP for a legitimate purpose, I know BP is under a seperate license and it is something I have been looking into for a few years.

Saying that I have tried many times with the leicestershire police and the local council and to get them to talk to each other and sort out some sort of display license for amature firework displays, as I have done the village display a couple of times but now refuse to do it as I an uncomfortable doing a display without insurance etc.... Meant to be for charity and people do sign a waiver, but I wouldn't think that would really stand up in court.

Both the council and the Police are very much in favour of it, but neither want to take ownership of this moving forward.

In the absence of actual names and addresses etc - may I suggest that you are misinformed. Propellant powders other than BP can be purchased without CERTIFICATE. A dealer may ask for it on signature but that is their choice, not a legal requirement. BP can only be supplied on production of a CERTIFICATE and where applicable an RCA document. There is no legal link between having firearms/shotgun certificates and purchasing propellant powders. Each is covered by different legislation.

Anyone can purchase propellant powders other than BP without a CERTIFICATE. I use smokeless powders in large amounts for demo purposes and buy it by the kilo from a number of sources around the country and have never been challenged. I buy my BP from a regular source on production of my COER CERTIFICATE.

The Police will never take ownership of display licenses for fireworks. Firework legislation has always sat with the Local Authority.

(Happy to discuss actual scenarios by PM)

[martyn]

I don't know where you are in Oxon, but if you don't want to snap a roman candle in half, and you want a bit of smokeless powder (propellant powder) to pop out your parachute, it's easily bought in Kidlington.
Just up the road from TVP HQ
And sold without formality as it should be - well actually they have to buzz you in but if they let me in they'll let anyone in.

[whoof]

Thanks martin , they are only 10 mins up the road from me.
Any idea Offhand what i would expect to pay for a cheap powder.