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Willow stars.


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#1 megabusa

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 01:55 PM

Hi All,

I have been wanting to try Willow stars (as in the name & not the charcoal) to get a longer lasting charcoal effect than Tiger Tail.

I recently made my first batch of 9mm cut Willow stars using this formula :

Charcoal 45
KNO3 35
S 12
dextrin 8

Bound with 75:25 water / IPA.

All the ingredients are pure & have been used many times in other comps.

They have been drying about a week now in my garage, which is longer than it takes for the same size Tiger Tails to dry.

I think they are dry, they are rock hard, but when I light one on the ground it will just burn a patch away on the surface of the star & then go out. When lighting it a few more times this keeps happening until it will eventually burn, but very slowly, I mean for about 15 seconds.

I know stars behave differently on the ground to in the air, but this tells me most of these will blow blind. Other stars normally burn on the ground just the effect is different to in the air.

Any Ideas ?? Do these stars need priming ? Anybody else tried igniting one on the ground ?


Thanks,

Phil.

#2 Mortartube

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:58 PM

Seems a low amount of KNO3. around 44 % would be better.

KNO3 44%
C 44%
S 7%
Dextrin 5%

Would be better. I have used this with good results. I have made these a small pill box stars. The need no match in the pill box tube and no priming. Bind with 10% water. I.E 10ml per 100g of mix. Knead well.
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#3 megabusa

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:10 PM

Seems a low amount of KNO3. around 44 % would be better.

KNO3 44%
C 44%
S 7%
Dextrin 5%

Would be better. I have used this with good results. I have made these a small pill box stars. The need no match in the pill box tube and no priming. Bind with 10% water. I.E 10ml per 100g of mix. Knead well.


Isn't that almost Tiger Tail ?

I love the TT effects, but at 9mm cubes they don't last long. In my mines I use 60g of 12mm TT & they burn all they way up to 120 feet & back down & then go out about 20 or 30 feet from the ground. I want to create that effect in a 2" shell but 12mm doesn't leave room for many stars.

The formula I used is Shimizu's Willow, it should burn for a while but not be difficult to light I believe.

#4 rocketpro

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:27 PM

Hi All,

I have been wanting to try Willow stars (as in the name & not the charcoal) to get a longer lasting charcoal effect than Tiger Tail.

I recently made my first batch of 9mm cut Willow stars using this formula :

Charcoal 45
KNO3 35
S 12
dextrin 8

Bound with 75:25 water / IPA.

All the ingredients are pure & have been used many times in other comps.

They have been drying about a week now in my garage, which is longer than it takes for the same size Tiger Tails to dry.

I think they are dry, they are rock hard, but when I light one on the ground it will just burn a patch away on the surface of the star & then go out. When lighting it a few more times this keeps happening until it will eventually burn, but very slowly, I mean for about 15 seconds.

I know stars behave differently on the ground to in the air, but this tells me most of these will blow blind. Other stars normally burn on the ground just the effect is different to in the air.

Any Ideas ?? Do these stars need priming ? Anybody else tried igniting one on the ground ?


Thanks,

Phil.


That composition shouldn`t give you any problems.

Was any milling involved?

If not:-

What charcoal are you using?

Is it airfloat?

Is your KNO3 over 80 mesh?

Have you cut a star in half to see if it is thoroughly dry?

Who tests the tester.


#5 Guest_PyroPDC_*

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:45 PM

i would try one in a tube to see as charcoal type stars are completely different when moving to the point by moving it gives more oxygen to the star.

Edited by PyroPDC, 18 April 2011 - 04:45 PM.


#6 megabusa

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:05 PM

Thanks for the replies so far guys :)


The batch was 300g & milled for 2.5 hours.

The whole mix was airfloat after milling. My mill uses 20mm lead balls about 130 of them & is quite good at reducing stuff to A/F.

The charcoal is BBQ lumpwood (NOT briquettes) that I use for other stars, fountains & even lift. I use willow charcoal for burst.

I will cut some in half to test if they are dry.

I will try a half size mine to test them.


Cheers.

Phil.

Edited by megabusa, 19 April 2011 - 08:04 AM.


#7 rocketpro

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:21 PM

[quote name='megabusa' timestamp='1303146356' post='72980']
Thanks for the replies so far guys :)


The batch was 300g & milled for 2.5 hours.

The whole mix was airfloat after milling. My mill uses 2mm lead balls about 130 of them & is quite good at reducing stuff to A/F.

The charcoal is BBQ lumpwood (NOT briquettes) that I use for other stars, fountains & even lift. I use willow charcoal for burst.

I will cut some in half to test if they are dry.

I will try a half size mine to test them.


Cheers.

Phil.

I would check to see if you have "instant light " lumpwood, this contains waxes and additives which can adversely affect its function in willow stars.






Who tests the tester.


#8 megabusa

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:51 PM

I would check to see if you have "instant light " lumpwood, this contains waxes and additives which can adversely affect its function in willow stars.



No it's quality 'organic type' charcoal. I have used it for over 3Kg of Tiger Tails with excellent results.

#9 cooperman435

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:55 PM

My mill uses 2mm lead balls about 130 of them & is quite good at reducing stuff to A/F.




That seems AWFULLY small media??

The point of lead media is to create a crushing hammering effect, the larger the media the larger the impact, 2mm media cant do much surely?

#10 rocketpro

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:56 PM

No it's quality 'organic type' charcoal. I have used it for over 3Kg of Tiger Tails with excellent results.


Ok, well it has me stumped then. If you have good chems and IF they are sufficiently fine and well incorporated, there shouldn`t be any reason that i can see why the stars shouldn`t perform correctly.

Edited by rocketpro, 18 April 2011 - 05:56 PM.

Who tests the tester.


#11 dan100

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 07:47 PM

hi. to know for sure if they're dry weigh them every day when they stay constant weight they're dry. the only thing i can think is if they have been in sunlight the moisture gets driven in and the oxidizer leeched out recrystalizing on the surface this can take weeks to dry same if they're too wet. i find priming when completely dry if they aren't already sorts them and what looks like a bad star on the ground can be suprising in the air. they should light easy confined in a mine or shell with no booster. if all else fails back to the mill i also think that 2mm lead balls aren't heavy enough to mill 300g of comp and 130 wont fill a jar that size to the optimum level.
dan

Edited by dan100, 18 April 2011 - 07:56 PM.


#12 megabusa

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:42 PM

That seems AWFULLY small media??

The point of lead media is to create a crushing hammering effect, the larger the media the larger the impact, 2mm media cant do much surely?


LOL my typo !!!

20mm is what I meant - Jar is half full with about 130 of them. :D

#13 Arthur Brown

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:47 PM

Start by drying to constant weight. 1% moisture is probably unavoidable. Once you have proven them dry by weighing daily, only a stargun test will tell you how they perform.
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#14 Vic

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:23 PM

If you have made similar formulas before, using the same ingredients with success, there is only one answer -you made a mistake somewhere. do it all again and see where you went wrong.
Freud. Artists, in this view, are people who may avoid neurosis and perversion by sublimating their impulses in their work.

#15 Mumbles

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:46 PM

Given the mill I have in my head (about 100mm diameter), 20mm seems way too big for that size. In any case, even inefficient milling is still milling.

I'd take PyroPDC's advice and fire them from a mine or shell. There are some comps that rely on moving through the air often by breaking off the cinder and burning it up with extra oxygen. Slow Gold works like that. On the ground they burn fairly quickly forming a solid glowing cinder, where as in the air they burn several times slower making a nice tail.

The other possible issue is that that particular formula teeters on the edge of being non-self sustaining for combustion. Many people have your same problem, and need to modify the KNO3:C ratio. I'd imagine it's based on charcoal. Not all charcoal is the same, and what Shimizu used isn't going to be what you have. The difference between TT and willow is primarily the KNO3:S amounts. If in the mine you find that the stars still don't light, try changing to 37:10 or something. A few parts here or there can make a difference between beautiful gold tails and black stars.




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