13 replies to this topic

[exat808]

The long-awaited UK/EU standards for stage pyrotechnics have lurched a step closer to becoming reality with the publication of the draft standards for public review.

BSI have placed the drafts online for anyone to comment on at the following locations...

prEN 16256-1 - http://drafts.bsigroup.com/Home/Details/736
prEN 16256-2 - http://drafts.bsigroup.com/Home/Details/737
prEN 16256-3 - http://drafts.bsigroup.com/Home/Details/738
prEN 16256-4 - http://drafts.bsigroup.com/Home/Details/739
prEN 16256-5 - http://drafts.bsigroup.com/Home/Details/740

...you need to register to see them but please don't be put off from commenting by that requirement.

Making comments can only be done online. You will eventually be able to see all comments as they are made.

An excellent chance here for UKPS members and forum users to add their voice to the shaping of new standards.
Its democracy guys - dont say you werent asked!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Arthur Brown]

OK first question! Not a comment on the standard but an interaction between two standards.

Igniters (0464) these being P class pyrotechnic devices are neither stage pyro nor fireworks, will both/either group of people need some kind of P1/P2 training to legitimately acquire igniters? Where will the training be sourced?

[exat808]

OK first question! Not a comment on the standard but an interaction between two standards.

Igniters (0464) these being P class pyrotechnic devices are neither stage pyro nor fireworks, will both/either group of people need some kind of P1/P2 training to legitimately acquire igniters? Where will the training be sourced?

Good observation. Sadly a number of queries like this evaded the consultation phase of the Pyro Articles Safety Regs 2010 and there is now the possibility of "grey areas" relating to the acquisition of certain articles.
As to training. A few astute SFX pyro suppliers are now putting courses together for prospective purchasers of their products. Therefore - take the course (pay money),then after passing the course buy the product ( pay more money). Simples!
Another income generator for UKPS to consider - you must have trainers in your midst (PhilD??) - set up your own training courses for P1/P2 and T1/T2.

[Arthur Brown]

There are certainly several trainers in the UKPS but, would people pay for a short course -for many industry pros a 1 hour course is rather a lot to simply discuss igniters. AND for those that can't get access there is still the DIY unregulated route. How would a course become accredited?

However if igniters 0464 get allocated to P1 then no training is needed.

[exat808]

There are certainly several trainers in the UKPS but, would people pay for a short course -for many industry pros a 1 hour course is rather a lot to simply discuss igniters. AND for those that can't get access there is still the DIY unregulated route. How would a course become accredited?

However if igniters 0464 get allocated to P1 then no training is needed.

A company that I have associations with is providing pyro training to end users of P1P2 and T1T2. Itis more than just an hour and includes legislative input, risk assessments as well as hands on use of a range of pyro articles and substances. There is no accreditation associated with the Pyro Articles Safety Regs 2010 (yet). Other professional qualifications do count.

[Arthur Brown]

To cover P and T, 1 and 2 lots of time is needed and lots of technical input. BUT to add igniters ( 0464) to an existing stage pyro course or an existing cat4 course an hour should be plenty, I hope.

[dave]

To cover P and T, 1 and 2 lots of time is needed and lots of technical input. BUT to add igniters ( 0464) to an existing stage pyro course or an existing cat4 course an hour should be plenty, I hope.

sounds like more over regulation to me................. mamby pamby ............grrrrrr........
(i'm not in a good mood )

dave

[crystal palace fireworks]

I would like to know all the organisations/bodies/businesses who were consulted by the BSI before these pyrotechnic draft standards were forwarded for public view?

Were the UKPS invited to offer there views at the consultation stage?

It seems as if the main body of the legislation is already in place, but yet again the true meaning of DEMOCRACY (grossly over used and deliberately misused by our brainwashed politicians and civil servants)is being applied in a legal backhand way by deliberately not engaging the public or smaller organisations at the earlier stages of the proposed construction of these drafts.

[Peret]

It seems as if the main body of the legislation is already in place, but yet again the true meaning of DEMOCRACY (grossly over used and deliberately misused by our brainwashed politicians and civil servants)is being applied in a legal backhand way by deliberately not engaging the public or smaller organisations at the earlier stages of the proposed construction of these drafts.

I agree completely. Democracy is defeated the moment some official decides an activity needs to be regulated. At that point, to borrow a phrase from Dickens, "it's all over bar the springing of the trap". I'm not saying we don't need regulations and standards. The problem arises when you have a large number of people whose job it is to think up new regulations and standards, because the one argument they will never allow is "that doesn't need regulating".

[exat808]

I agree completely. Democracy is defeated the moment some official decides an activity needs to be regulated. At that point, to borrow a phrase from Dickens, "it's all over bar the springing of the trap". I'm not saying we don't need regulations and standards. The problem arises when you have a large number of people whose job it is to think up new regulations and standards, because the one argument they will never allow is "that doesn't need regulating".

Oops. Perhaps I used the word "democracy" a little too freely in my first post.
To be honest I only found out about the BSI consultation by virtue of my position within a professional body. We were approached by another pyro related professional body rather than BSI directly.
Whatever your views are please respond to the consultation. The more voices that are heard from all corners of the pyro community may benefit others in the future.

[Richard H]

I for one have registered and will be reviewing the drafts for Cat. 4 fireworks that are available. For those not in the know, this includes for example the new labelling requirements to be affixed to articles.

[crystal palace fireworks]

Ive put me inquiring hat on again, and directly ask the BSI for a response to my 2 questions, lets see if they get back to me with some straightforward answers.

[Arthur Brown]

On a Cat4 firework, to the incoming regs, will the date required within the statutory labelling have any connection with the date on which the authorising CAD either was made or expires? I'm thinking that there could be dates printed on shells that indicate "life" in some way that could give a false impression of "Life to CAD expiry"

Will there develop a market for cat4 with short date selling at low prices, maybe even risking leaking out of the professional market place as disposal by sale rather than paid disposal at end of CAD. Would shells with apparent life date showing be available for trade even after the expiry of their CAD life, would any purchaser be aware that trade purchases could already have passed their CAD expiry date?

If a firework was produced again during the second year of it's CAD it may have only one year of CAD life BUT three years of indicated life left. A production run during the third year of a CAD could go out of CAD BEFORE it it passed from importer to user, yet still have an indicated three years life to run.

Edited by Arthur Brown, 23 April 2011 - 08:22 AM.

[Arthur Brown]

More on Igniters and other Ignition Devices.

http://drafts.bsigroup.com/Home/Details/763

Igniters may easily come into P1 or P2, and by my reading, the same fusehead could be in BOTH categories, according to the (possibly) plastic protection sleeve.