13 replies to this topic

[Tudge]

I'm a 17 year old college student who has always been very interested in pyrotechnics (particularly the fireworks side of things), and am looking to start working in the field after college, once I turn 18.

I've been looking at the BPA Level 1 courses that many companies offer, and was wondering whether it best to complete one of those with a local company (Celebration Fireworks in Worcestershire being the closest listed on pyro.org to me, so most likely with them), or is it better to contact different companies looking for voluntary work with them as a first step?

Also, is it worth contacting people now, or to wait until after college?

Thanks

[Arthur Brown]

Go and talk to them! BUt remember that the fireworks industry is very seasonal and there may not be all year paid work for you no matter how much you and they like each other.

[Tudge]

Thanks very much for the advise guys! I'll get on the phone. Do you guys have other jobs as well as working in the fireworks industry then?

[exat808]

You might also wish to examine in what particular direction you would like your career to go. Fireworks are a very specific part of the general heading of Pyrotechnics. And indeed Pyrotechnics can be considered under various headings - Stage/Theatrical - SFX - Technical Pyrotechnics ( rocket motors and propulsive devices etc) - or are you considering manufacturing?

Consider how your academic qualifiactions may assist you. Have a look at National Occupational Standards (NOS) particularly those that deal with Explosive Substances and Articles (ESA). However, gathering qualifications is only a start point for you. If I were a prospective employer I would want to see evidence of "competence", and that is something that can only be gained through experience.
Be prepared to give your time freely, be prepared for long anti-social hours especially if you are considering display fireworks.

Good luck and keep asking questions on forums like this..there are people here who may be able to assist you.

Edited by exat808, 05 August 2012 - 07:48 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

My personal guestimate is that 10% of the people who work in fireworks manage without a proper job, 10% of those make a good living form fireworks. There is a lot of "unpaid labour for the fun or experience" You cannot live on that.

Advice at the start: Take a lot of effort to avoid any conviction for any offence as at some time you could find that it counts against the "Good Character" needed for some certificates and licences. For a start moderate your driving, drinking and behaviour!

[bloater]

Celebration or G-Force as they are also known are a very good company and there BPA course is very good, drop them an Email or give them a call just be mindful there in one of the rounds of the Firework Champions events this coming weekend so may be a bit busy.

[Karl Mitchell-Shead]

Get involved with the UKFR forum too, many more professional companies on there that are often posting looking for new firers.

You don't actually have to be 18 to be involved with professional fireworks, its down to the discretion of the operator

[martyn]

I think you're right there Karl.




Although MSER (acop) says

"Employment of young persons
Regulation 7
No person who manufactures or stores explosives shall permit a person between the age of 16 years and 18 years to work in that manufacture or storage except under appropriate supervision.
444 The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 19997 place specific duties on employers to ensure that young people are ‘protected at work from any risks to their health or safety which are a consequence of their lack of experience, or absence of awareness of existing or potential risks or the fact that young persons have not yet fully matured’.
445 The employer is required to carry out a risk assessment before a young person starts work. The assessment should consider the particular risks which may arise from lack of experience or insufficient attention to safety.
446 In general the presumption should be not to employ young people in roles where they are directly involved in the manufacture or storage of explosives or frequently go into explosives buildings or areas unless there are good reasons for doing so.

447 Young people should at all times be under appropriate supervision by a competent responsible person whenever they are in an explosives area. The level of supervision will depend on the maturity of the individual, their experience and training, the hazards they are dealing with and other procedures in place. For example, direct supervision at all times would be appropriate for a 16-year-old with little or no training or experience. A trained and experienced near-18-year-old may not require constant direct supervision, although arrangements must be in place to ensure they receive the appropriate level of direct and indirect supervision and a supervisor is on hand at all times in the event of a problem.
448 As with any other workers, young people handling explosives will need to have appropriate training on the risks to which they are exposed, the safety requirements, and the rules and procedures to be followed.
449 Supervisors of young people must be over 18. It is essential that the supervisor should have a full understanding of the hazards likely to be encountered; the safety precautions to be taken; potential problems that might occur and the action to be taken should a problem arise. In selecting and training supervisors, employers must ensure that they have the necessary experience and understanding of the risks as well as the requisite personal qualities.
450 These principles apply to all young people in the workplace, including those on work experience or other temporary placement schemes.

There is the argument that working on a firing site might not come under the remit of MSER but it's probably safer to assume it does.
The guidance would seem sensible good practice anyway.

[exat808]

I think you're right there Karl.




Although MSER (acop) says

"Employment of young persons
Regulation 7
No person who manufactures or stores explosives shall permit a person between the age of 16 years and 18 years to work in that manufacture or storage except under appropriate supervision.

There is the argument that working on a firing site might not come under the remit of MSER but it's probably safer to assume it does.
The guidance would seem sensible good practice anyway.

MSER is about Manufacture and Storage. It doesnt cover actual use. So whilst a young person may be excluded from working in a business premises selling fireworks, he/she may actually be employed by a display company.
It would be prudent to see if insurers placed any condition on the employment of young persons.

Also there are other aspects of H&S legislation that may affect those who employ young persons.
There may also be issues relating to the suitability of those who work with young persons in respect of CRB checks etc etc.

[martyn]

Yes - my slight concern in this litigious age is that firework display companies have storage and usually part of the process of collating and prepping a display is removing the fireworks from storage (is it in storage then or in transport), and sometimes preparing and fusing, although not an act of manufacture, is carried out the storage site.
What do you think?

I'm probably thinking too hard about it and over complicating it - I do that a lot!
I'm all for the early days Lancaster / Alford school of H and S, which is great, ....until something goes wrong.
This is certainly nor intended to put off a youngster, more to point out why some employers might be a bit reluctant to employ some young people in todays climate of namby pamby..

Edited by martyn, 08 August 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[exat808]

Yes - my slight concern in this litigious age is that firework display companies have storage and usually part of the process of collating and prepping a display is removing the fireworks from storage (is it in storage then or in transport), and sometimes preparing and fusing, although not an act of manufacture, is carried out the storage site.
What do you think?

I'm probably thinking too hard about it and over complicating it - I do that a lot!
I'm all for the early days Lancaster / Alford school of H and S, which is great, ....until something goes wrong.
This is certainly nor intended to put off a youngster, more to point out why some employers might be a bit reluctant to employ some young people in todays climate of namby pamby..

You are right Martyn. The test would be ( in my opinion) that if MSER applied to storage/manufacture on the site where the fireworks are to be used then the operator would have to clearly demonstrate that he could comply with Reg 7 of MSER in respect of the employment of young persons.
If the place of use is not subject to MSER either because there is no storage taking place other than that permitted in the unlicensed storage exemptions or that no manufacture is taking place other than that permitted in the unlicensed manufacture exemptions then Reg 7 doesnt apply - but refer to my earlier comments re other legal duties to be complied with.

Many people seem to yearn for the "good old days" pre Health and Safety Act. The Act has been with us since 1974 and the various Regulations born from that have also been with us for many years. I might suggest that many who post and yearn for the good old days may not actually have been around when times were allegedly better from a safety perspective than they are now. I wont quote statistics because they can be manipulated to suit any argument but it is refreshing to see across the entire explosives sector that accidents resulting in death or serious injury have fallen almost year on year to a point very close to zero. Yes, there are other factors involved such as the vastly reduced size of the UK explosives sector in the last 30/40 years so the sharp statistician may argue that in 2012 less people are having more accidents than the larger workforce from 1974 who actually had fewer accidents per employed person.
Whilst I'm having a rant about H&S. Many people think think that H&S legislation is all about employers covering their backsides. If you study the Act and other supporting Regulations you will find that the employee has as much a duty to use equipment correctly, use the right equipment, protect members of the public, report dangerous practices, ensure that he has adequate training etc etc.

Lots to consider.. Oh and I just realised the thread was about staring off in pyro...