9 replies to this topic

[cooperman435]

If anyone can help shed their experience, knowledge or anything Id really appreciate it please

Essentially we now have had our storage site and licence in place for some time, Im permitted the standard 2000kg of 1.3G and a restriction of 1200kg if storing 1.1G

Therefore storage is not an issue.

I have been given conflicting information from one of my licensing officers compared to the other and want anyone else’s opinions on what we can and can’t do before acting

We want to sell cat3 fireworks to the public, mainly online but also are considering using local retailers as outlets too.

Previous advice was that to sell fireworks to the public we would need to register a premises as either seasonal (NYE, Chinese NY, Diwali and Nov 5th) and then could sell during the prescribed times only, alternatively we could register as all year round and do likewise. This would require a premises (home address if needed) and we could then sell legally to the public.

We have just been told that for seasonal sales registration is ONLY for the purpose of the storing of fireworks on the site of sale in excess of 5kg NEQ, therefore we as licensed store holders can already offer CAT3 to the public (during the seasonal times) as we already have our storage issue solve.
AND we could supply local retailers with up to 5kg NEQ to hold in the shop and sell and as they are local can replace stock as and when sold so as to not even require registration on that site.
We were told that we could take payment at any time during the year but only physically suply the fireworks during the prescribed times as that was the point viewed as the transaction, IE pre paid orders were fine.

Id obviously want to be 100% sure this was all correct before considering doing it and my intention is to have my licensing officer supply a letter detailing all the points I need clarifying before proceeding but obviously I’m keen to get this in place soon.

Any comments please?

Edited by cooperman435, 04 September 2012 - 12:07 AM.

[exat808]

If anyone can help shed their experience, knowledge or anything Id really appreciate it please

Essentially we now have had our storage site and licence in place for some time, Im permitted the standard 2000kg of 1.3G and a restriction of 1200kg if storing 1.1G

Therefore storage is not an issue.

I have been given conflicting information from one of my licensing officers compared to the other and want anyone else’s opinions on what we can and can’t do before acting

We want to sell cat3 fireworks to the public, mainly online but also are considering using local retailers as outlets too.

Previous advice was that to sell fireworks to the public we would need to register a premises as either seasonal (NYE, Chinese NY, Diwali and Nov 5th) and then could sell during the prescribed times only, alternatively we could register as all year round and do likewise. This would require a premises (home address if needed) and we could then sell legally to the public.

We have just been told that for seasonal sales registration is ONLY for the purpose of the storing of fireworks on the site of sale in excess of 5kg NEQ, therefore we as licensed store holders can already offer CAT3 to the public (during the seasonal times) as we already have our storage issue solve.
AND we could supply local retailers with up to 5kg NEQ to hold in the shop and sell and as they are local can replace stock as and when sold so as to not even require registration on that site.
We were told that we could take payment at any time during the year but only physically suply the fireworks during the prescribed times as that was the point viewed as the transaction, IE pre paid orders were fine.

Id obviously want to be 100% sure this was all correct before considering doing it and my intention is to have my licensing officer supply a letter detailing all the points I need clarifying before proceeding but obviously I’m keen to get this in place soon.

Any comments please?

It is a confusing area at times Phil.
As you have noted, there are 2 aspects to this -
1. compliance with MSER 2005 for storage
2. compliance with the Fireworks Regulations 2004 for sales

If we take the scenario of a High Street retail premises.

In respect of storage he may keep a max of 5 kg of fireworks for an unlimited time in accordance with MSER Regulation 10.
If he chooses to keep more than 5kg he must either Register that storage up to the limits set in MSER Regulation 11 or if space permits he may Licence the storage in accordance with MSER Regulations 12 and 13.

In resepct of sales he may sell during any of the 4 prescribed periods without a licence issued under FR2004 and it makes no difference whether he is keeping 5kg or has a Registration or a Licence under MSER
If he wishes to sell any any time other than the 4 prescribed periods he apply for a Licence in accordance with FR2004 Regulation 9. In order to satisfy FR2004 Regulation 9 the retailer must also have a Registration or Licence under MSER

Considering your own scenario - You have a licensed store under MSER.
At present you may sell during the 4 prescribed periods in accordance with FR2004.
The 5kg limit keeps getting mentioned in your scenario. In my opinion this has muddied the waters a bit. FR2004 does not mention 5kg anywhere.
The bottom line is that if you sell fireworks in any quantity outside of the prescribed periods then you must be licensed under FR2004. This would still apply if you are supplying 5kg loads to a High Street retailer ( as above). It matters not (to you) what the retailer does with them after you have sold them.
I cannot see that you need a "premises" to satisfy FR2004. The Regulations just require that the applicant has an MSER Registration or Licence. Your application for a FR2004 Licence should be made using the same address as your MSER site licence.
Simples...

[cooperman435]

Ok that cheers me up a lot as it sounds promising for my aim this year.

The 5kg storage issue was mentioned simply as if local retailers were to agree to sell my stock on my behalf too they could do so without incouring costs as long as no more than 5kg was on their site at any one time.

As I would be local I could simply replace stock on a daily basis as and when needed or deliver to the customer personally if larger amounts were ordered. My officer pointed out that usually a shop selling fireworks wouldnt have this luxuary so would usually require registration to enable them to hold a reasonable amount of stock.

[pyrotrev]

Phill

Also be aware that you may need to alter your insurance to cover sales to the public - certainly my insurers regarded it as an extra.

Edited by pyrotrev, 04 September 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[cooperman435]

What was it that you needed to change or include that was not already covered? Was it for the physical sale of fireworks ie the place you displayed them, or even to cover customers when collecting from you? Or was it indemnity cover that you needed in the event of injury and claiming against you as a retailer?

Phill

[starseeker]

When i was granted my storage licence my HSE officer also told me that it included a seasonel sales licence ,i am assuming that i do not have to apply for it separately?

If so i would like to know as i also intend selling some cat3 this season.

[exat808]

When i was granted my storage licence my HSE officer also told me that it included a seasonel sales licence ,i am assuming that i do not have to apply for it separately?

If so i would like to know as i also intend selling some cat3 this season.

There is no "seasonal" sales licence as such. The Fireworks Regs of 2004 quite simply say that if you wish to sell fireworks at any time of the year other than the 4 specified series of dates then you must have a licence and to get that licence your storage must be Registered or Licenced under MSER..

[starseeker]

There is no "seasonal" sales licence as such. The Fireworks Regs of 2004 quite simply say that if you wish to sell fireworks at any time of the year other than the 4 specified series of dates then you must have a licence and to get that licence your storage must be Registered or Licenced under MSER..

Thank you Danny for clearing that up,i did not want to be selling fireworks and then find out i had miss understood what i was told

[Malcolm Smith]

This is the actual legislation:-

http://www.legislati...gulation/9/made

[exat808]

Please bear in mind that the link to the legislation (FR2004) in the above post takes you to an unamended version of the Regulations. There have been consequential amendments arising from the introduction of other legislation over the past few years.