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10" Cannon


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#1 Sparky

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 05:47 PM

Hey all

 

I am now the proud owner of a little signalling cannon (well when my partner lets me have it on my birthday :-( ) My partner says it's very cute lol.

 

I think the bore it about an inch, maybe a little less and the length is 10 inches. The previous owner has fired it many time and uses homemade BP. I've emailed him for some input on amounts etc but has anyone else here had much experience on firing one, the amount of BP to use and wadding etc.

 

Oh and finally, what is the law on firing one just for effect with under 100g of home made BP etc etc.

 

Thanks in advance.



#2 Peret

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:34 PM

100g of powder in a cannon that size would be a bit of an overkill :ph34r:  I'd suggest trying it with 3 to 5  grams first and not exceeding 10. Use a wad made from a circle of corrugated cardboard a little bigger than the bore, which you ram down with a wood dowel - snip round the edges so it folds into a cup. Wrap the powder in a twist of tissue paper for the best results with a small load. It keeps it together and away from the cold metal walls, and the fire propagates faster.

 

Be careful where you point it. The illustration is a 2 inch mortar firing 6 grams of BP. As you can see, the flame licks a long way.

spit.jpg



#3 Sparky

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 10:14 PM

Thanks Peret, I wasn't suggesting trying this with 100g lol, possibly lost in translation. I'll give it a go with 5g to start and probably go from there.



#4 cooperman435

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:07 PM

Please correct me if wrong as its not my area of expertise but I would assume this falls squarely inside the regulations of a firearm/shotgun ticket holder only occupation?



#5 fruitfulsteve

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:23 PM

Please correct me if wrong as its not my area of expertise but I would assume this falls squarely inside the regulations of a firearm/shotgun ticket holder only occupation?

 

I was thinking the same thing but i believe these cannons or something very similar are quite often used in special effects and stage pyro.

 

However the way i understand things is that even small quantity's of loose BP require a acquire/acquire & keep certificate.

 

Still a little confusing !!!


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#6 Sparky

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:03 PM

Phil, you're not the only one to think that so I've done quite a bit of reading on this and it is another one of those grey areas I think.

 

So from the Guidance on FIrearms licensing there is this:

 

Antiques
2.40 The provisions of the 1968 Act do not apply to antique firearms kept as curiosities or 
ornaments (section 58(2)). There are therefore two key issues: whether a firearm is 
legitimately an antique and whether it is to be sold, transferred, purchased, acquired, 
or possessed as a curiosity or ornament. The word ‘antique’ and the phrase ‘curiosity 
or ornament’ are not defined in law. However, detailed guidance on what should be 
regarded as an antique firearm for firearms licensing purposes can be found in Chapter 
8. The person in possession of a particular firearm should be able to demonstrate to the 
satisfaction of the chief officer of police that it can be treated as an antique for certification 
purposes, although it would be for the prosecution to prove otherwise in the event of 
the matter coming to court. Evidence of antique status may include an indication of date 
of manufacture, details of technical obsolescence, a lack of commercial availability of 
suitable ammunition, or a written opinion by an accredited expert. If there is any indication 
that a firearm is to be used (that is, not held purely as a curiosity or ornament), it should 
not be regarded as an antique firearm for the purposes of the Firearms Acts and normal 
certification procedures apply.
 
This part of it suggests that if it's just an ornament and an antique (which it is) then I can own it no problem.

If on the other hand if it is a starting cannon currently in use then I would need a license. From what I understand it is not really a starting cannon as it does not use blank 10 gauge cartridges like ones I've seen fired to start yacht races.It does not have a breach and cannot be fired via cord to release the firing pin. It really is just an old bit of cast iron.

So to buy BP I definitely need an acquire, to fire this thing I'm not entirely sure as it would not be firing a projectile and is not classed as a shotgun or a pistol.

Being frank, if I wanted to use it as a signalling cannon then I think the license would be needed. For keeping at home for the odd pyro effect, I'm not sure the law would be applied, I certainly don't think charging it with 10g of home made BP would warrant a prosecution or in the public interest.

Of course, I shall be keeping this as an ornament until a time when I know for sure :-) Maybe after the new legislation goes through it will be simpler !!!
 
 


#7 cooperman435

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:10 PM

But surely that exert also states

 

"If there is any indication 

that a firearm is to be used (that is, not held purely as a curiosity or ornament), it should 
not be regarded as an antique firearm for the purposes of the Firearms Acts and normal 
certification procedures apply."
 
This would include charging it with BP from any source and firing it in any way. Therefore Id say you do need a ticket to do so?


#8 fruitfulsteve

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:01 PM

Could it be classed as a 'percussion pot' ?


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#9 Sparky

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:09 PM

Phil - I think the point here is that the firearm is able to fire live ammunition. The definition of ammunition is a projectile, the cannon does not have any ammunition available. If you read the documentation in full it repeats over and over that the controls are for public safety and prevention of crime. I'm not sure a 35lb hunk of iron from 1902 constitutes a huge public risk as a weapon. I can't imagine this being tested in court!

 

On the UK gov website https://www.gov.uk/g...v6_Nov_2013.pdf

 

There is a section on occasional test firing of antique guns which I'm not sure I fully understand. It sounds like you still need a license but that the conditions are far less stringent. I think I shall be making some calls tomorrow to find out!

How bloody ridiculous is this all over wanting to making an old (tiny) cannon go bang every now and again. It really saddens me.....



#10 wayne

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:09 AM

It will be indeed classed as a firearm.  Regardless if you want to fire blank or otherwise, its still is capable of firing a projectile.  Don't worry though, the firearm license(for cannon)/COER(for BP) is free, so no big deal!  Contact your local Police ELO (Explosive Liaison Officer) and they will tell you all you need to know.

 

Also, think about joining:

 

http://www.mlagb.com/

 

and here's a interesting posting for you:

 

http://www.mlagb.com...?num=1102258105

 

Sounds fun, I may have to look at cannons in the future!

 

Cheers,

 

Wayne.


Edited by wayne, 20 May 2014 - 07:11 AM.


#11 pyrotrev

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 12:50 PM

There's a place we sometimes do shows at that has a rather larger one - maybe 18" long barrel: I'm dying to give it a go!
Trying to do something very beautiful but very dangerous very safely....

#12 Sparky

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 07:48 PM

Thanks Wayne, I will do that when I actually get it. It's a gift from the other half.

 

10 inch is pretty small, there was a bigger one for sale for about £600 but to be honest it is just for fun. A bang and a bit of smoke on the odd special occasion like the Queens birthday, royal weddings etc.



#13 Arthur Brown

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:40 PM

Even a blank firing cannon can have issues. read this   http://www.maib.gov..../grand-turk.pdf

 

Basically a charge went off unexpectedly and a crew member lost parts of his hand.  Probably this incident did more than anything else to bring the thought of minimising and mitigation of cannon misfires into current thinking. In the old days they just lost a few people, now that's not acceptable.


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Keep mannequins and watermelons away from fireworks..they always get hurt..

#14 Sparky

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:26 PM

Arthur, this was a basic error with following existing procedure. Cannons have a very similar risk when reloading to the old system of reloading shells in a motor tube.

 

If you are in a hurry to reload you must follow proper process. Luckily people like me aren't looking for a rapid fire rate :-)


Edited by Sparky, 06 June 2014 - 10:34 PM.


#15 Sparky

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:24 PM

Right all.

 

I'm about to apply for my COER to license the cannon and also A&K BP for the cannon and also pyro experimentation. I'll let you know how it goes.






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