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Need a concern clarifying


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#16 rocketpro

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 07:39 PM

Ok Wayne good to know we`re on the same page. Can you please give me a few very direct answers to a shortened version of what I have already posted?
 
It seems to me that they are saying you can manufacture without requiring a licence.
 
If, as you say "manufacture is acquiring" there must be an anomaly here because they clearly state it`s ok to manufacture up to 100g but then it states " but nothing in this sub-paragraph is to be taken as authorising any acquisition or keeping of explosives for which an explosives certificate is required by virtue of regulation 5 without such a certificate". 
 
That then is like saying "you can but then you can`t"! This is why I previously said  I believed the "acquire" section is separate from the "manufacture and storage" sections which is more intended for the likes of amateur pyro on a small scale.
 
 
 
Authorisation to manufacture explosives.
 
6.  (1)  Subject to paragraph (2), no person may manufacture explosives unless that person holds a licence for that manufacture and complies with the conditions of that licence.
 
(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to— 
(a) the manufacture of explosives for the purpose of laboratory analysis, testing, demonstration or experimentation (but not for practical use or supply) where the total quantity of explosives being manufactured at any time does not exceed 100 grams, but nothing in this sub-paragraph is to be taken as authorising any acquisition or keeping of explosives for which an explosives certificate is required by virtue of regulation 5, without such a certificate.

 

Perhaps it might be a good idea to present further clarification so everybody has a clear understanding of these regulations.

 

Regarding the term acquisition this might help..http://www.oxforddic...ish/acquisition

Sorry but i`m a stickler for correctness :) 


Edited by rocketpro, 06 March 2015 - 09:56 AM.

Who tests the tester.


#17 Richard H

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:12 PM

 

2. (10) Any reference to acquiring an explosive means acquiring possession of or property in the explosive.

 

See: http://www.legislati...gulation/2/made



#18 wayne

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:15 PM

There are 2 licenses spoken of here, licence to manufacture and licence to a&q explosives.

 

Reg 6(2)(a) covers the exemption to manufacture explosives without a manufacturing licence (albeit in <=100g quantities), but the regulation also stipulates that it doesn't exempt the requirement for an explosive certificate to any controlled explosive manufactured. 

 

I'm afraid I do have a very clear understanding on the regulations, so really there is no need to clarify this yet again.  This was something that was clarified early in the ELR process 2-3 years ago and it is clearly stated it in the regulation, ie:

 

but nothing in this sub-paragraph is to be taken as authorising any acquisition or keeping of explosives for which an explosives certificate is required by virtue of regulation 5, without such a certificate

 

I'm afraid that is the official line and what will be in the guidance document which has been reviewed by the HSE.  Just bear in mind, that this is the HSE official line so if you we're to go to court over a licence breach, don't forget to bring your dictionary along! :) I'm afraid an expert witness such as Tom Smith would agree with the HSE in their definition - I should know, I only spoke to him the other day about the exact same thing!

 

I am told by the HSE that there is to be an entry in schedule 2 of ER2014 (the list of explosives which don't require an explosive certificate) for "pyrotechnics substances for educational purposes".  This is for the use in schools, universities etc for demonstration and educational purposes.  The only issue is, the list of explosives is minimal and the quantities are very small (<5g).  I'm told this was pursued by the RSC for their demonstrations but as yet, I see no exact detail on the schedule entry.  Rest assured, apart from doing a small amount of loose comp tests, it will be useless for our application.


Edited by wayne, 10 September 2014 - 08:20 PM.


#19 martyn

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:33 PM

Rocketpro, I think you may be confusing several sets of legislation.

 

Manufacture - this is very tightly controlled, it involves jumping through many hoops and spending a fair bit of money.

Thankfully Wayne has now clarified that we can take advantage of the mser 9.2.a 'exemption' and make sub 100g.

Technically we could make 99g of TNT, EXCEPT, we would not be granted an acquire for this as we don't have a legitimate need for it and we would be breaking the law until we killed ourselves!

 

Possessing - this is obviously regulated. For most explosives you need permission from someone to possess. To get permission you have to satisfy them you have a legitimate need and you know what you are doing. It doesn't matter if you make them, buy them, steal them, find them or inherit them. This is / was controlled by coer, colloquially the acquire and keep. There are a few which are not subject to control, for us it was flash, but that will change.

 

Storage - Again, in the interest of safety, to store explosives you need a licence or registration, except in the case of small quantities and or for short periods. MSER controlled this and you have quoted the exceptions. Effectively, you don't need a storage licence to store up to 15kg of BP UN0027/8. You do however need permission to 'keep' it

 

Bring on the guidance :)


Edited by martyn, 10 September 2014 - 08:46 PM.


#20 wayne

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:44 PM

Spot on Martyn!



#21 rocketpro

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:25 AM

Post retracted.


Edited by rocketpro, 20 January 2015 - 08:45 AM.

Who tests the tester.


#22 wayne

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 09:16 AM

Glad we got there! :) 

 

As I say, the penny will drop for all when my guidance document is published... 



#23 Deano 1

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:38 PM

I can't wait for this document Wayne, I feel the more I read the more I want to jack it all in.

Thanks for all your hard work.


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#24 wayne

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 06:30 AM

 

I am told by the HSE that there is to be an entry in schedule 2 of ER2014 (the list of explosives which don't require an explosive certificate) for "pyrotechnics substances for educational purposes".  This is for the use in schools, universities etc for demonstration and educational purposes.  The only issue is, the list of explosives is minimal and the quantities are very small (<5g).  I'm told this was pursued by the RSC for their demonstrations but as yet, I see no exact detail on the schedule entry.  Rest assured, apart from doing a small amount of loose comp tests, it will be useless for our application.

 

Ive now found this entry in ER 2014, and it states:

 

 

 

Regulation 5(3)(a)

SCHEDULE 2EXPLOSIVES NOT REQUIRING AN EXPLOSIVES CERTIFICATE
 
PART 2

 

14.  Any pyrotechnic substance, in a quantity not exceeding 0.5 grams, which has been manufactured for, and is used for, demonstration purposes as part of an educational activity within the meaning of section 1(3) of the Further Education Act 1985 and either it is wholly used up in the demonstration or any amount remaining is destroyed immediately after it. 

 

 

Not much use for experimental pyro, but could be useful for any school demos etc.



#25 Arthur Brown

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 07:46 PM

Now that would permit the Society to develop a performance for schools, 


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