26 replies to this topic

[PyroKingdom]

So, i know that flash powder and many low explosives can legal if under a weight limit, but im just asking about if anyone know laws on small amounts of high explosive like acetone peroxide and mercury fulminate?? I can get access to small amount of murcury and stuff but is it legal to make small amounts of these in the UK?

[Arthur Brown]

It's far from hobby fireworks, I'd suggest that the chemistry is the easy part, getting planning permission and a HSE licence for the factory and process could be expensive and time consuming. Remember that AP always associates it's self with bad things. 

[PyroKingdom]

the explosives I'm thinking of making are nitrocellulose (which is legal if under 13% nitrogen), flash powder (which I think is legal under 100g) but I'm wondering about acetone peroxide in small amounts, do I need a licence? It's reasonably easy to make.

[rocketpro]

In a nutshell - yes you do need a licence. If in any doubt just call your local police and ask for the Explosives Liaison Officer.

[Arthur Brown]

If you have a licensed factory then what you want is fine, discus details with your HSE inspector. 

 

Without a licensed factory then peroxides, fulminates, and Nitrating cellulose are off limits totally. Flash can be in a pyrotechnic article that you can buy but you may not make flash without COER A+K (since sept 2014).

 

Fulminates and peroxides can be detected in nanogram quantities. If you have need or business with high explosives and primary explosives then your local Police ELO is the best contact that you can have.

[Arthur Brown]

Remember that "easy to make" does NOT mean "legal to make".

[fruitfulsteve]

The way i believe the 100g rule is interpreted is that you can make up to 100g of any explosive inc HE for experimentation, education, demonstration purposes. You can't use them for practical purpose and you can't store them without a certificate to do so.

 

Is this still not the case ?

[starseeker]

I agree Steve,

 

But if you start making HE in your shed and experimenting with it in your garden i think you will be in a whole world of trouble ,legal or not they will screw you ! 

[martyn]

The way i believe the 100g rule is interpreted is that you can make up to 100g of any explosive inc HE for experimentation, education, demonstration purposes. You can't use them for practical purpose and you can't store them without a certificate to do so.

 

Is this still not the case ?

I disagree.

You can't acquire them (by manufacture) without an acquire (coer cert), and you won't be given an acquire for HE for home hobby experimentation,quite rightly.

Edited by martyn, 18 November 2014 - 07:23 PM.

[fruitfulsteve]

So wats the 100g rule about then ? from wat i remember at the AGM Wayne said only one word had changed and IIRC that was something to do with the practical use part.

[Vic]

I got the impression after Wayne's talk at the AGM that there were surprising thinks that we could do, I take that as being HE. I don't have a transcript of the talk but that's how I saw it reading between the lines of what he was saying.

 

I was properly wrong, and I don't see HE has anything to do with our art. HE has no place in any home experimentation.

[fruitfulsteve]

Wayne's talk is on the society youtube page there's a link on the main page.

 

HE doesn't have much to do with pyro granted, although snapbangs contain silver fulminate which is apparently a HE, probably not technically a pyrotechnic device but still pretty amusing. However i would still like to think that home experimentation could include small quantity's of HE after all explody stuff is pretty damn fun. I'm not saying people should be making 100g quantity's of NG or any other HE but i don't see the harm in micro amounts.

 

Wat would be the situation with the classic trinitroiodide school science demonstration ? is it classified ? it certainly can't be transported well not dry anyway. Do all school science teachers now need a explosive certificate ?

[Vic]

Wayne's talk is on the society youtube page there's a link on the main page.

 

HE doesn't have much to do with pyro granted, although snapbangs contain silver fulminate which is apparently a HE, probably not technically a pyrotechnic device but still pretty amusing. However i would still like to think that home experimentation could include small quantity's of HE after all explody stuff is pretty damn fun. I'm not saying people should be making 100g quantity's of NG or any other HE but i don't see the harm in micro amounts.

 

Wat would be the situation with the classic trinitroiodide school science demonstration ? is it classified ? it certainly can't be transported well not dry anyway. Do all school science teachers now need a explosive certificate ?

 

Good points made.

 

 

 

[fruitfulsteve]

It would appear that this is another part of the ELR2014 that may need clarifying and as Starseeker said even if it is legal you could still end up in trouble if you partake in HE experimentation especially in ya back garden.

 

However i have just been reminded that this is a 'pyro' society and that HE is just not really pyro. Given that i can suggest 'sciencemadness' which although a mainly american forum does have a lot of UK home chemists on it, they may have a better knowledge of the current legislation when it comes to HE.

[Arthur Brown]

Demonstrations in an academic situation are covered by separate Home Office guidance notes. In all those cases the demo needs to be as small as possible, perhaps the entire lecture will use an NEC of less than a gram, only the amount needed should be prepared and all of it should be used in the demo or cleared immediately afterwards. (very short summary of long regulations)

 

However fulminates and peroxides draw all the wrong impressions and should be avoided at all costs. It's not going to be a pretty bang is it? Therefore if fails my test for "fireworks"..