Jump to content


Photo

Need help with school discussion.


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 italteen3

italteen3

    Newbie

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 304 posts

Posted 16 March 2004 - 03:03 PM

Well in AP environmental science class today my partner and I were doing a presentation on harmful effects of urbanization and we somehow got sidetracked and our ten minute presentation turned into a 45 minute discussion. With me in the class it ofcourse got turned into fireworks.

My teacher said that only display fireworks should be around and all consumer fireworks banned. I told her that most injuries are because of ignorance and black market fireworks in an area where consumer fireworks were banned. I have also heard that in Minnesota where Jesse Ventura became Governor and legalized fireworks that injuries actually went down.

I just need some figures, charts, and legit sources to prove that they are not as bad as she thinks.

Her point against mine was that her moth was burned from her leg to her armpit bcause of her brothers lighting her on fire with sparklers... :rolleyes:

She also even admitted she was closed minded about the subject. I just really want to make her feel stupid.

Lastly how polluting are fireworks??

Thanks alot guys!

#2 BigG

BigG

    Pyro Forum Top Trump

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,539 posts

Posted 16 March 2004 - 03:51 PM

Actually, Humiliating your teacher is the wrong way to go about it, and if she really wanted to get you, the figures are on her sides.

Statistics in the UK show the amount of injuries over the 5-nov and new-year is very high. The point one must make, that the injuries are not due to unsafe manufacture (the standard is very tough) but due to MISUSE of fireworks.

The argument you made, that “accidents are because of ignorance” - is correct and well placed. It’s the base for all arguments in this area. Banning consumer fireworks will cause people to get it on black market with no proper lighting instruction etc.

Our aim is not to say that accidents do not happen, or that firework are not potential hazard – but to explain that the way to make them safe is by proper education about their power.

For injury statistics in the UK for 2002: http://www.dti.gov.u...1/firestats.htm

#3 Phoenix

Phoenix

    UKR Forum Ex Regular!

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 544 posts

Posted 16 March 2004 - 07:44 PM

Here are a few points you might be able to use:

- People get hurt all the time by things like knives and baseball bats. It's called crime. However, the obvious solution is to make hurting people, not knives or baseball bats, illegal, as knives are very useful for preparing food, and baseball bats are very good for playing baseball. Similarly, fireworks are very good for producing pleasing combinations of light and sound, even though they can be used to burn mothers.

- _I would guess_ that most firework injuries happen to people who have chosen to use fireworks, not to uninvolved bystanders. People have a right to do something, even if it does mean risking their own personal safety. That's why public ice rinks and swimming pools have not all been closed down.

- Another large part of fireworks injuries _probably_ happen to people who are watching a home fired display. Chances are that they too have chosen to be there. No one is stopping them from going inside and watching TV instead. Spectators also occasionally get a ball in the face at (private, since she doesn't want public displays banned) cricket matches, but again, few people would support a ban on them.

- A small number of uninvolved bystanders will be accidentally hurt by privately used fireworks. However, a far greater number of uninvolved bystanders are no doubt hurt by private cars. You could ask your teacher whether she drives to work, and whether she thinks that the only traffic that should be allowed on roads should be public transport. The problem with this may be that people do need a license to drive. However, I, and I suspect quite a few other people on this forum, would favour a system where small fireworks (such as fountains, sparklers, small bore roman candles, small rockets, pinwheels etc) can be bought by anyone, like they can now. These are the equivalent of bicycles, which can be ridden on a road without the need for licensing. However, to use larger rockets, big bore cakes, mines, and small shells (about 2" or less, which I would have reintroduced) would require a certificate of some sort, to prove basic competency, and make people who abused such items easier to catch. Hopefully this would be accessible to anyone with an interest in the larger items, and prevent the number of accidents that occurred with them.

- As you said, when fireworks are legally sold, they (for us Brits) comply with BS7114. Making fireworks illegal will not stop people from wanting them, it will stop the right people from supplying them. It will mean that the only fireworks available to the public are ones that do not comply with any official safety standards. Fireworks will not be guaranteed not to contain unsafe mixtures, and fireworks such as large ground maroons will likely become available (which they are not, at the moment). Correct me if I'm wrong, is it not quite common for people from states where fireworks have been banned in the South West to travel to Mexico and stock up on very dangerous items they would not use, if legal fireworks were available in their own state?

There are several posts and threads about the environmental effect of fireworks in the rec.pyrotechnics archive which you could read. Chances are, most people won't know enough about the chemicals used in fireworks to consider half of these, but just in case:

- I remember reading that barium tends to find its way to the form of barium sulphate soon enough, and therefore loses its toxicity. This seems to make sense.

- Relatively few fireworks compositions produce sulphur dioxide. Black powder doesn't produce significant quantities. Much less than a coal fire.

- Cadmium is not used in fireworks. Neither is plutonium or anthrax.

- Mercury and arsenic are almost never used any more.

- The use of lead is decreasing, and not much was ever used anyway.

- Potassium compounds resulting from fireworks (carbonate, sulphate) are in fact very beneficial to plant life.

- The carbon dioxide produced most firework compositions comes from charcoal. This comes from wood. This is made from carbon dioxide. This reduces levels of carbon dioxide in the air. Thus fireworks do not contribute carbon dioxide to the atmosphere.

These are just my ideas, and may not always be correct etc etc, but I think that they are. Hope they help...

#4 Stuart

Stuart

    BPS Member

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 664 posts

Posted 16 March 2004 - 10:13 PM

I think you would have to be a bit of a ponce to justify banning fireworks because of the environmental effects. It's virtually nothing in comparison to other things. The fact of the matter is, like many law's, they are only there because a small number of people have to ruin the fun for everyone else

Stuart

#5 Yugen-biki

Yugen-biki

    Pyro is forever

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 384 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 04:18 PM

Every year something like +-350 people (13-45 years old+-) get hurt every year here in Sweden (0-4 die+-). The age limit is 18. --> The ones who buys fireworks are irresponsible. And often alkohol is mixed with using fireworks. A lisence would greatly improve the situation. Then we don?t need to make fireworks illegal. I have never seen illegal fireworks here. A ban is not the solution. Alkohol is dangerous and we don?t need it, but we like to have it. I?s the same with fireworks.

#6 Phoenix

Phoenix

    UKR Forum Ex Regular!

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 544 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 04:44 PM

Anyone know how many people are killed or injured when putting up Christmas decorations, not cooking turkeys properly, drink driving on Christmas Eve etc? Again, Christmas isn't going to get banned any time soon...

#7 Yugen-biki

Yugen-biki

    Pyro is forever

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 384 posts

Posted 18 March 2004 - 12:59 PM

:lol:

Living is dangerous! Ban traffic, alkohol, tobaco, sugar/fatt, etc at the same time as fireworks! Or maby the stupid humans have to start thinking before acting. :angry:

#8 italteen3

italteen3

    Newbie

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 304 posts

Posted 18 March 2004 - 02:09 PM

Thanks alot for the help guys! Im in AP environmental science class right now supposed to be doing work but Im on here :D . I appreciate the help alot. All I need now is a real chart showing figures, you guys already gave some good points now I need some evidence and Im set.

Anyone ever see demolition man? Banned almost EVERYTHING. No sex! No bad foods! NOTHING! Sounds almost like what our world is becoming like.

#9 phildunford

phildunford

    Member

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,299 posts

Posted 18 March 2004 - 03:45 PM

Know alcohol has been mentioned a few times, but think about it - It's a poison that can kill you, causes violence and countless deaths but the government make money out of it so they don't care -

Better not go down this road or they will start taxing fireworks!

Edited by phildunford, 18 March 2004 - 03:45 PM.

Teaching moft plainly, and withall moft exactly, the composing of all manner of fire-works for tryumph and recreation (John Bate 1635)
Posted Imagethegreenman

#10 adamw

adamw

    An old Leodensian

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,297 posts

Posted 18 March 2004 - 08:21 PM

Yes the Demolition Man reference is f****ng spot-on.

<BUZZ - AdamW, you have been fined one credit for violation of the verbal morality statute> :)
75 : 15: 10... Enough said!

#11 italteen3

italteen3

    Newbie

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 304 posts

Posted 19 March 2004 - 12:52 AM

adamw, on Mar 18 2004, 08:21 PM, said:

Yes the Demolition Man reference is f****ng spot-on.

<BUZZ - AdamW, you have been fined one credit for violation of the verbal morality statute>  :)

Yeah I may use that as an example when I try to discuss the issue with my teacher again.

How many times did he get fined in that movie for profanity alone? :D

I know I seen it on a pyro site dedicated to steer newbies away from starting with Flash. Showed alot of pics of peoples home displays. I also know it had pyro in the url...




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users