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#1 exat808

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 04:10 PM

That's a topic title to excite the nation.

 

After a long absence I have returned to UKPS. 

(I haven't really been away as Wayne and others will confirm)

 

I took  the plunge to leave the world of explosives enforcement and to concentrate on my own explosives engineering, training and consultancy activities which have now turned into a full time job across 2 separate businesses. 

 

The aim of this topic is simple - I will answer any explosive legislation based query from forum members but I would prefer the queries to be emailed to me rather than posted on the forum. I will prepare a reply and post that on the forums in due course.

 

My email address - danny@skewenergetics.co.uk

 

I probably wont be checking the forums very often so please use the email option

 



#2 wayne

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 04:14 PM

Hi Danny,

 

That's a very kind offer of you and expect a number of people to take you up right away!

 

Cheers,

 

Wayne.



#3 rocketpro

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 04:18 PM

Yes including me!

 

I have a question regarding ER14 that has been bugging me for a long time.

 

Thank you Danny, much appreciated.


Who tests the tester.


#4 Vic

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 06:49 PM

Good to have you back Danny and your offer of expertise in legislation.


Freud. Artists, in this view, are people who may avoid neurosis and perversion by sublimating their impulses in their work.

#5 Vic

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 07:25 PM

Oh I forgot to ask, I trust you will be becoming a member of the society, now there is no conflict of interests :)


Edited by Vic, 05 March 2015 - 07:39 PM.

Freud. Artists, in this view, are people who may avoid neurosis and perversion by sublimating their impulses in their work.

#6 starseeker

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 08:38 PM

Thats some very good news,

 

Very kind of you and good to have you back  :)



#7 exat808

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:53 PM

I received an email query earlier today.

The sender has issues over the determination of "competence" by the ELO locally and also queried the inclusion (or not) of UN numbers on the application for a certificate,

 

My response (with slight editing for anonymity)  -

 

As you will perhaps appreciate your community has put its head above the parapet and made the enforcing authorities very much aware that your activities do take place and have a legitimate place in the general explosives world. From the perspective of the average ELO they are very much into new territory when dealing with yourselves. The bread and butter work for the ELO is the possession of black powder by those who have muzzle loading firearms followed by commercial blasting activities in mines and quarries. Experimental use of any explosives takes the ELO out of their comfort zone.

 

When looking at an application for either type of explosives certificate the ELO is seeking to make a determination that the applicant is a “fit person” . The regulations go so far as to say that the Chief Officer “must” issue a certificate if he is satisfied that the applicant is a fit person (ER2014 Regulation 11(3)).

So how does the ELO make his determination that you are “fit”? In the true fashion of British legislation the answer lies in the process for refusing to grant a certificate. ER2014 Reg 19(2) lists the criteria that must be met as follows –

a.       Good reason – membership of a recognised body such as UKPS and the wish to use the explosives for experimental pyrotechnic manufacture surely fits the bill

b.      A responsible person who may acquire explosives without danger to the public safety or the peace – this is the catch all criteria which allows the ELO to make whatever enquires that they see fit and I think that this is where the issue of competence has arisen ( I will address that later). Generally to satisfy this criteria the ELO will use police resources such as the Police National Computer for convictions checks, national and local intelligence databases and a resource known as PND which is a database of all police related information known about an individual – such as being the subject of a stop and search, being the victim of domestic violence, being warned by an officer for public order matters – basically if you come into in contact with the police this database will know about it. There is also the issue of health. If you have indicated a previous notifiable condition then the ELO will contact your GP or Specialist and request further information and make additional enquiries as necessary.

c.       Reasonable precautions to prevent loss or unauthorised access – this will relate to the provision of suitable licensed storage and adequate record keeping within the requirements of ER2014 Reg 35

d.      Applicant not prohibited – as per the definition of prohibited person in ER2014 Reg 2 – basically no custodial sentences or convictions under the 1883 Explosive Substances Act

e.      Not relevant to individuals

f.        Fairly self explanatory

g.       Also fairly self explanatory

 

 

So now to competence. The Regulations themselves are silent on the issue of competence but as I suggested earlier, competence can be tied into the criteria for determining a “fit person”.

In the commercial sector competence can be mapped against certain standards that determine how particular role requirements are structured. I have suggested jointly to UKPS and to the ELO community that competence in the experimental pyrotechnic community can also be similarly mapped without great difficulty. Similar processes work in other recreational explosive use areas such as historical re-enactment, cave exploration and wreck diving.

If you wish to read what the Guidance to the Regulations – Safety provisions states concerning competence please look at paragraphs 62 – 69 in the document. ( A Google search for ER2014 Safety Provisions should take you to a PDF of the document).

A key factor is the list of bullet points at para 69 and in particular  “membership of a relevant representative association or society” – UKPS very much fits the bill here.

 

I am trying to educate the ELO community through  bulletins and other means that the concept of experimental manufacture of pyrotechnic substances is a wholly legitimate practice and this will be further reinforced when I run the next national course next month which will be the first to take on board ER2014.

 

With regard to the UN numbers situation on certificates. Currently ELO’s are constrained to adding only specific UN numbers that the applicant has requested, thereby not allowing for things that may be manufactured a bit further down the line. I am looking at getting a form of words such as “Any Pyrotechnic substance subject of the Regulations” or similar to be added to certificates from applicants such as yourself. This is more of an administrative process for the police and Home Office to deal with as it requires changes to the software that runs the licensing and certification management system.

 

The determination of what UN numbers go on a certificate or not is summed up in ER2014 Reg5 para 3.

 

Happy to answer queries like this or arising from this response but only by email to me in the first instance.

 

danny@skewenergetics.co.uk



#8 David G

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:29 PM

Thank you for all that information Danny. It particulary answers my queries.



#9 dannytsg

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:57 AM

Now it actually feels like we have some movement going forward on what has been a very sticky issue. Knowing someone of your knowledge and experience is helping to educate and "fight our corner" gives me real hope in what in my own mind was become a non-win situation with competence and the ELO.

 

Thanks


"Life - It is what it is"


#10 exat808

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:32 PM

I had an email query today from a member who has the following descriptive text on his Acquire Only certificate - 

 

UN MAN2  Any pyrotechnic substance subject to these regulations that is within the meaning of explosive contained within Regulation 2.

 

and in relation to the use of permitted explosives he has - 

 

Testing meaning the initiation of an explosive solely for the purpose of evaluating the explosive performance of that article or substance where that evaluation has been undertaken by following a systematic methodology.

 

The query related to the form of words used in the explosive descriptor box and also to the the condition of use.

 

I have made inquiries this afternoon and am pleased to report that the form of words used as a descriptor the permitted explosives is accessible to all police forces in England and Wales. Sadly Police Scotland do not subscribe to the same licensing system as their counterparts south of the border. I will ensure that the use of this descriptor is considered best practice by ELO's by way of a bulletin that will be published on their intranet site. I will try to address the Scottish situation

separately.

 

The query also related to the use of the word "solely" in the permitted use condition and whether the use of this word was too prescriptive. I would take the view that if other persons present at the testing of an explosive substance gained enjoyment and entertainment from observing that testing ( possibly at a UKPS hosted event) that does in no way detract from the terms of the condition of use.

 

The production of a certificate structured in this is in my view exactly what UKPS has been striving for. 



#11 dave

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:25 PM

good to have you on board danny

 

excellent !



#12 exat808

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 04:52 PM

Flash Powder & Explosives Certificates

ER2014 requires that acquisition of certain explosive articles and substances is subject to certification. These are known in the legislation as “Relevant Explosives”

The process for determining which articles and substances are “Relevant Explosives” requires careful study of Regulation 5(3) and Schedules 2 and 3.

Within the regulations explosives are generally referred to by their UN Number. The UN number is allocated to the substance or article only after it has been classified in approved packaging by a relevant body. (The HSE in UK).

 

Flash powder currently has 2 listings in the UN Dangerous Goods list.

 

UN0094 classified as 1.1G – normally this would be bulk packaged powder in large commercial drums. Very hazardous when packaged and liable to high order detonation.

 

0305 classified as 1.3G – normally smaller retail sized tubs or cartons. Less hazardous when packaged.

 

Please remember that UN numbers and hazard codes relate to the article or substance when packaged for transport.

 

Also please remember that articles that have flash powder as all or part of an explosive filling eg fireworks, theatrical flash pots and photoflash cartridges will each have their own UN number assigned to the article not the filling. Potentially therefore a theatrical flash pot filled with flash powder could have a lower hazard division classification (1.4G) than the substance that is contained within (1.3G)

 

Neither of the UN listings for flash powder appear as an exempted listing in Regulation 5(3) or in the table and text entries in Schedule 2. As a consequence Flash Powder must now appear on an explosives certificate.

 

On the face of it this may suggest that inclusion of either number on the certificate would restrict the holder to only acquiring substances that have been classified and assigned either number so this is the point where the applicant must request from the ELO the inclusion of the “UN MAN2” listing from the National Firearms Licensing Management System (NFLMS). As I said in an earlier post – this listing is live on the system for ELO’s to use. The addition of this on a certificate enables the holder to possess any pyrotechnic substance that they have manufactured. So if you choose to experiment with varying formula to create a substance that has the effect of flash powder, you are legally covered.  

 

What you cannot do is to transport your own production of flash powder as it is an unclassified explosive.  Inclusion of the “UN MAN2” does not infer that the end product will  ever be classified and very importantly does not allocate a Hazard Division code or a Hazard Type to your finished product.

 

Any queries please email me - danny@skewenergetics.co.uk



#13 exat808

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 01:34 PM

Below is the body of text from a bulletin that I have sent for inclusion on the ELO intranet site.

Hopefully we can complete the loop now in terms of what to ask for on a certificate application and how the ELO should structure the certificate when it has been granted.

There is still more work to be done on the matter of demonstrating competence.

 

  Explosives Regulations 2014

 

Experimental manufacture of pyrotechnic substances – certification issues

 

This bulletin is for the information of all Explosive Liaison Officers and licensing administrators.

 

Points to note:

 

During the recent Explosive Legislative Review recognition was given to those persons who experiment with the manufacture of pyrotechnic substances as a recreational activity. The HSE worked alongside the lead body for this activity, the UK Pyrotechnic Society (UKPS) to develop the specific exemption from a manufacturing licence found at ER2014 Regulation 6(2)(a).

 

It is improbable that any pyrotechnic substance manufactured in accordance with the exemption will ever be submitted for classification and accordingly a suitable form of words is needed when identifying explosives that may lawfully be acquired on a certificate. Additionally the person conducting the experiments may wish to develop a variety of substances within the life of the certificate.

 

In order to provide a wholly compliant solution to certification issues ELO’s and administrators should use the “UN MAN2” option on NFLMS when selecting from the list of explosives to be authorised. This should generate a descriptor  “Any pyrotechnic substance subject to these regulations that is within the meaning of explosive contained within Regulation 2”

 

It is also recommended that on Acquire Only certificates the permitted use box contains text similar to  “Testing meaning the initiation of an explosive solely for the purpose of evaluating the explosive performance of that article or substance where that evaluation has been undertaken by following a systematic methodology.”

 

Note that some applicants in addition to requesting the UN MAN2 option may legitimately request other commercial pyrotechnic substances such as Flash Powder. Such application should be considered on a case by case basis.

 

UKPS has an excellent guide for those involved in experimental activity. This can be found at:

http://www.pyrosocie...gulations-2014/

 

Information in this bulletin has been made available to UKPS via its internet forum.       


Edited by exat808, 11 March 2015 - 01:35 PM.


#14 David G

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:42 PM

Excellent. Thank you very much on behalf of all who are struggling to be legal.

#15 wayne

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:54 PM

Many thanks for that Danny.

 

The bulletin will also be accompanied by a brief society overview document to give the ELO's a little background on who we are and what we're about.  I've attached this below for your reference.

 

Cheers,

 

Wayne.

 

Updated 11/03/15 @ 16:58: Minor changes to the doc...

Attached Files


Edited by wayne, 11 March 2015 - 04:58 PM.





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