56 replies to this topic

[pyrotechnist]

What type of glue do you lot use for making firework tubes? Like do you use PVA? Or any other glues or pasts pleas list what you use pleas I am stuck I use PVA and it dries very brittle and not to strong. Thanks for any input.

[thewildething]

I have found rolled paper tubes glued with PVA glue really strong, are you sure its PVA? its just that I thought PVA wasnt brittle when dry.
A nice strip of thick paper coated in PVA, rolled around a dowel and left to dry is very strong in my experience. I would aim for a tube thickness of 3-5mm for a good bang. (not that I have ever tried my PVA tubes, they are still sat in my room waiting.)
PVA is also very cheap, you should be able to get 5 litres for around 10-12 quid, and its widely available.

Marcus.

Edited by thewildething, 14 June 2004 - 12:14 PM.

[Creepin_pyro]

I use wallpaper paste for tubes. When I'm being super-lazy I just use a higher GSM, and dry roll and superglue them. I found some "stiffening compound" in my garage which I might try pasting my tubes with. Never had any problems with good ol' wallpaper paste.

[Mortartube]

If you're in the UK, try Extramite (used to be called Cascamite), available in hardware shops. It's a powdered resin that's mixed with water and it makes tubes that are ROCK HARD. PVA doesn't even approach this product if you do things properly.

[pyrotechnist]

So Extramite is very good glue? Has it worked on your tubes? And have you tubes made with this stuff worked well and not been flammable or blown apart with it? I normally put PVA mixed with a bit of water well half water and half PVA glue and it makes the tube quiet strong but its a bit brittle and bends a bit. Thanks for replies . Were did you buy your Extramite from? I have found a web site for it called http://www.screwfix....=30599&id=12441 is this the right wood resin you are talking about? Is it bad on the skin or is it ok on contact with the skin? Thanks for replies.

Edited by pyrotechnist, 14 June 2004 - 04:33 PM.

[Phoenix]

If you're in the UK, try Extramite (used to be called Cascamite), available in hardware shops. It's a powdered resin that's mixed with water and it makes tubes that are ROCK HARD. PVA doesn't even approach this product if you do things properly.

I was considering getting a bucket of Extramite with my next Screwfix order, so I am very glad to hear that. It'll definately be on the list now. I wanted it originally as it seemed more like what "The Old Masters" would have used instead of PVA.

Thin wallpaper paste is easy to roll with, as it can be brushed easily, doesn't stick tubes to the former, and excess paste will easily be "rolled off" the paper as you roll up the tube, so a nice tight tube results. Only problem is, on drying, it isn't that well bonded. If it is for a rocket or fountain, when the comp is rammed in place, it will sometimes drag the inner layers of paper down with it, the result being that the paper "spirals" into the tube.

Thick wallpaper paste will bond the paper strongly enough to solve this; instead the rammed comp simply slides past the tube walls without taking them with it. However, it is slower to brush on, and if you have excess paste on the paper it may get rolled in between the layers, making the tube spongier when it dries (this can be reduced by rolling it several times on the bench, preferably with a rolling board). Again, no problems with tubes sticking to formers.

In my experience, neat PVA gives the strongest tube, but is difficult to work with as it stick tubes to the former very easily, especially if it is made from wood

Recently, I have taken to using a mixture of thin wallpaper paste and PVA, probably about 1:4 (very cheap PVA). This is easy to spread, doesn't stick to the former, and gives a very hard tube.

PVA (or, apparantly, Extramite) and wallpaper paste both have their own applications. Wallpaper paste is really what is necessary for pasting shells, and is probably superior to PVA for this. Thin wallpaper paste also works very well for making cracker fuse, better than dextrin, IMO. On the other hand, PVA is much better for gluing plugs into tubes, and can be used to seal around fuses (though hot melt is better for this).

[Mortartube]

Pyrotechnists Screwfix link is indeed the same Extramite resin that I use. It does say on the container that it can cause problems for people with sensitive skin although I haven't had any problems. Don't buy too much as the remaining resin in the container can be hardened by atmospheric moisture once the tub is opened. So a cool dry storage place is essential. You can mix the resin to the consistency you require, if you make it quite thick, it can be very sticky to use, make it thinner to soak into heavy weight papers. I always use it for rocket cases etc. You may find a small tin at B&Q etc which would be a good idea to make sure you like using the stuff before commiting yourself to a big plastic tub. I bought mine from my local hardware store which has now closed. I still use PVA for gluing in corks and watered down for Gerb cappings etc. BTW, when dry, Extramite is waterproof (it can be used for boatbuilding).

[pyrotechnist]

Thanku I searched the B&Q in England and it came up with no results for Extramite. So is there another name they are using in B&Q or could you pleas tell me the link to it . Ok my tube is getting stronger now but PVA crackles when pressure is added but is quiet strong my tube is getting stronger at my window ledge now every day it seems lol. But I will try some of this Extramite stuff and see how I go. Does it make really strong tubes Extramite? I do not know what the professionals use but I did ask one and he said they use PVA some times for tubes so I do not know. Thanks for replies people.

Edit: Ho and is it flammable or not?

Edited by pyrotechnist, 15 June 2004 - 10:08 AM.

[Jerronimo]

For realy hard tubes I use waterproof polyurethane construction glue.
Normaly it is used for ehhhh construction....
It has a brownish color and expands when hardening.
It is quite expensive, but can be diluted with acetone, wich will give a nice flowing easy to apply substance.

Use gloves when applying it! if U get it on your hands it is impossible to remove.

[Mortartube]

Pyrotechnist, try a local hardware store (the old traditional High street type) for Extramite. Some professionals use it (we did in the firework factory I worked in) for strobe flare cases etc. It's not flammable AFAIK, certainly not when dry. I said B&Q as a general description of the type of store that may sell it, Homebase etc rather than a definitive source. It does make really strong tubes. Leave them for a day or two to dry and make sure you roll them tightly.

[pyrotechnist]

Ok thanks for all your help i will search homebase now thanks a bunch man and the rest of ya to thanks.

I can't find it so i will have to buy big tin.

Edited by pyrotechnist, 16 June 2004 - 01:41 AM.

[Phoenix]

I've just tried some Extramite, and indeed it does make excellent cases, probably because it does not appear to reduce much in volume as it sets (if you paint a thickish layer of wallpaper paste or PVA onto a surface, you will be left with a thin film once it's dry, but Extramite leaves a thick, hard layer of set glue). The only problems that I encountered, that I don't think anyone mentioned, are that you have to wear gloves when using it (it's an irritant) and, as my paste brush discovered, it sets overnight, and is then no longer water soluble, so you have to use it all in one go, and not leave a bit in the glue pot to use later. However, it did give a noticably firmer case than paste, so is pobably worth using for exceptional applications.

[The_Djinn]

I tended to.. well used to before I got lazy and started buying tubes... use wallpaper paste and pva mix. One problem I encountered and i am sure severall other have done the same, is I used to paint a film on the papper and then roll it. Problem with this is that the glue does not penetrate the papper. I found the best way is to put the papper into a tub and beat it around in the glue mix till it is about to fall apart and become pulp.. then roll it. Tubes I made like this are as strong as nails. I made a 2.5" test hemi which I only ended up using 2 layers of thin craft. One half of this test hemi can support 2.5kg load without crumpling.. which I think is not bad for just 2 layers.
The method of saturating the papper is described in Shimizu's book for those that are interested.

Mark

[Phoenix]

I have had some experience with dextrin a long time ago, and was thinking of looking into it again. IIRC, unlike wallpaper paste, dextrin does not seem to form such a thick gel with water. This means that you can make a much more concentrated solution (stronger glue) without it becoming unspreadable. It should be possible to make a strongly bonded tube, but using a thin glue that is easy to spread into a thin layer on the paper (which thick wallpaper paste isn't - you end up with too much).