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Making the old fashioned gunpowder machines?


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#1 pyrotechnist

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 11:30 AM

Hi I am thinking of making one of the old industrial gunpowder machines the ones with the big weights which turn in the tray the Chinese use them and others do. I was thinking a ball mill wouldn't give you precise mixtures all the time because of the media varies and the amount of time maybe and balls used. But with a proper gunpowder-milling machine the weight is always the same and the same amount so you should get more precise mixtures am I right? I am thinking of making one of these beasts but in smaller version using heavy weights. Has anyone made one of these? Thanks. :D
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#2 alany

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 11:49 AM

According to Ian von Maltitz's books the weights are actually suspended using springs or hydraulics to control the milling pressure. They don't just crush the mill charge with their full weight, they squeeze and churn it.

They are big, expensive and heavy, but the best choice for large scale production.

#3 phildunford

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 03:10 PM

Not sure where you are but if you are in the South UK a visit to Waltham Abbey powder mills would be instructive.

Although there is very little original equipment there, there are models and loads of information available.

I'm pretty sure the mills they used were pure brute force weight and had no hydraulics or anything. The presses were hydraulic though.

I would think you would have problems of scale reproducing these mills, the wheels weighed many tons and I would guess you would need wheels about three feet diameter to even start getting the crushing power you would need!

some more info at

royal gunpowder mills
Teaching moft plainly, and withall moft exactly, the composing of all manner of fire-works for tryumph and recreation (John Bate 1635)
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#4 Phoenix

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 03:37 PM

The Alchemist has built one, according to his profile:

I built my second powder mill in 1983, preferring to make a wheel mill. This powder has a much faster burn rate than ball milled powder. The mill consists of two 80 kg lead antimony alloy wheels rotating in an annulus ground into a large slab of fine grained granite. About one revolution every eight seconds.

That shows that they can be reproduced on a smaller scale than ton wheels, but even so, 160kg of hardened lead and a base slab alone won't come cheap, never mind fabrication costs.

You say that ball milling is inconsistant due to inconsistant media and time? Couldn't you just use the same media for each batch, load the same weight of powder, and mill for the same length of time? The majority of hobbyists get by fine with ball mills, so I don't think there is a problem with them.

Waltham Abbey would definately be worth a look. I went there primarily for the firework exhibition they had on a while ago, which has probably long since finished (?) but if it is there then that would be another reason to go.

#5 pyrotechnist

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 11:19 PM

ball mills i have heard on this form do not always give the same strength of gunpowder all the time or the same quality of it. Also the led media would ware down and start getting finer and finer. I am thinking of using some weights that you use in weigt lifting like 10kg or something with a nice mass on them. With a aluminium dish for it to roll in with the wet bp being mixed and stuff that is a site to see :D . I could make more better mixes with the origional machine that did it all and still does in China.
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