16 replies to this topic

[Dan]

i made this formula. i got it off of passfire.

Red Organic Fueled Star:
Name: Lancaster KP #2
Source: Ron Lancaster

Chemical Name: Parts: Weigh:

Potassium Perchlorate 70

Strontium Carbonate 15

Red Gum 9

Dextrin 4

Charcoal Airfloat 2

Tare: Total: 100%

it comes out to be a little bright and i was wondering could i darken the color by just adding more strontium? like maybe 17 or 18 parts. also couldnt i just use the red gum as a binder and a fuel and get rid of the dextrin? i have parlon in my at home. would that make the color a little darker. how much would i ad?
thx for the help
Dan

[Rhodri]

What solvents are you using Dan?

[RegimentalPyro]

Good question. Now I'm not certain about the following but am "fairly sure" it's good info....

As far as I know altering the amount of Strontium Carbonate in this formula will alter the SATURATION of colour but not the BRIGHTNESS.

To alter the brightness would mean changing the temperature that the composition burns at - probably through fiddling with the oxidiser/fuel. [hotter=brighter]

Of course once you approach a certain temp, then you will not excite the Strontium ions to emit light at all

Does this make sense?

[Stuart]

What does saturation mean? Been something I have seen a lot but never got around to asking what it is.

[Dan]

What solvents are you using Dan?

i was using 50/50 alcohol/water mix but was wanting to use all alcohol because of faster drying

Good question. Now I'm not certain about the following but am "fairly sure" it's good info....

As far as I know altering the amount of Strontium Carbonate in this formula will alter the SATURATION of colour but not the BRIGHTNESS.

To alter the brightness would mean changing the temperature that the composition burns at - probably through fiddling with the oxidiser/fuel. [hotter=brighter]

Of course once you approach a certain temp, then you will not excite the Strontium ions to emit light at all

Does this make sense?

for the most part it makes sense. so if if decrease the amount of KClO4 it would make it darker? like drop it down to 65 or 67 grams? also would adding parlon help darken the color?
thx for the help
Dan

[RegimentalPyro]

What does saturation mean? Been something I have seen a lot but never got around to asking what it is.

Saturation is best described as vividness of hue; degree of difference from a gray of the same lightness or brightness. Also called intensity.

At this point in time I would advise a practical approach.

Split your comp into 4
Add a little more Fuel to the first
Add a little more Colourant to the second
Add a little more Oxidiser to the third
Leave the fourth unaltered

Record the results - I for one would be really interested!

[Phoenix]

RegimentalPyro said,

As far as I know altering the amount of Strontium Carbonate in this formula will alter the SATURATION of colour but not the BRIGHTNESS.

Strontium carbonate isn't a fuel or oxidiser (well, it would probably oxidise magnesium etc, but it isn't a particularly active oxidiser in this composition), so by adding more strontium carbonate to the comp, you are adding more matter to be heated, but no more active material to heat it. The result is therefore that the heat has to be shared among more matter, and the flame temperature drops.

Dan, I guess that by "darker" you mean "redder," rather than "dimmer," correct? If that is the case, it may help to add a little extra chlorine donor to the composition, or simply try a different composition that includes an extra chlorine donor. I'd go with RegimentalPyro's course of experimentation, but divide it into five, and add a little parlon/PVC/saran/whatever to the extra portion.

The deepest reds of all are said to come from strontium nitrate, rather than carbonate, so if you are in a position to obtain it, you could try that instead.

[Dan]

Saturation is best described as vividness of hue; degree of difference from a gray of the same lightness or brightness. Also called intensity.

At this point in time I would advise a practical approach.

Split your comp into 4
Add a little more Fuel to the first
Add a little more Colourant to the second
Add a little more Oxidiser to the third
Leave the fourth unaltered

Record the results - I for one would be really interested!

i will get it mix it up this afternoon and let yall know soon.

RegimentalPyro said,

Strontium carbonate isn't a fuel or oxidiser (well, it would probably oxidise magnesium etc, but it isn't a particularly active oxidiser in this composition), so by adding more strontium carbonate to the comp, you are adding more matter to be heated, but no more active material to heat it. The result is therefore that the heat has to be shared among more matter, and the flame temperature drops.

Dan, I guess that by "darker" you mean "redder," rather than "dimmer," correct? If that is the case, it may help to add a little extra chlorine donor to the composition, or simply try a different composition that includes an extra chlorine donor. I'd go with RegimentalPyro's course of experimentation, but divide it into five, and add a little parlon/PVC/saran/whatever to the extra portion.

The deepest reds of all are said to come from strontium nitrate, rather than carbonate, so if you are in a position to obtain it, you could try that instead.

Phoenix, how much parlon would i add? could i just use the red gum as a binder and get rid of the dextrin?
BTW Phoenix that is exactly what i meant.

thx for the help
Dan

Edited by Dan, 03 August 2004 - 03:53 PM.

[Phoenix]

As a start, I might add an additional 5-10% chlorine donor, though that is really just a guess, and I have only done a small amount of experimentation with adding PVC to compositions, and not really that much with any colour comps. You could also try this Simizu formula, which Tom Perigrin says has a more intense colour than a Blesser formula, almost identical to Lancaster the one you have:

K Perchlorate.....66
Red Gum............13
Sr Carbonate......12
Lampblack*..........2
PVC**..................2
Dextrin.................5

*AF Charcoal should probably be OK
**I think that many chlorine donors, such as parlon, will function as well as PVC if you don't have it.

EDIT: Don't know about the dextrin. Stars containing large amounts of red gum are supposed to be prone to becoming driven in, and can be difficult to handle (sticky), which may be why the formula uses a dextrin binder.

Edited by Phoenix, 03 August 2004 - 08:04 PM.

[Dan]

As a start, I might add an additional 5-10% chlorine donor, though that is really just a guess, and I have only done a small amount of experimentation with adding PVC to compositions, and not really that much with any colour comps. You could also try this Simizu formula, which Tom Perigrin says has a more intense colour than a Blesser formula, almost identical to Lancaster the one you have:

K Perchlorate.....66
Red Gum............13
Sr Carbonate......12
Lampblack*..........2
PVC**..................2
Dextrin.................5

*AF Charcoal should probably be OK
**I think that many chlorine donors, such as parlon, will function as well as PVC if you don't have it.

EDIT: Don't know about the dextrin. Stars containing large amounts of red gum are supposed to be prone to becoming driven in, and can be difficult to handle (sticky), which may be why the formula uses a dextrin binder.

cool thx Phoenix, i will give it a shot when i get off work.

[Dan]

As a start, I might add an additional 5-10% chlorine donor, though that is really just a guess, and I have only done a small amount of experimentation with adding PVC to compositions, and not really that much with any colour comps. You could also try this Simizu formula, which Tom Perigrin says has a more intense colour than a Blesser formula, almost identical to Lancaster the one you have:

K Perchlorate.....66
Red Gum............13
Sr Carbonate......12
Lampblack*..........2
PVC**..................2
Dextrin.................5

*AF Charcoal should probably be OK
**I think that many chlorine donors, such as parlon, will function as well as PVC if you don't have it.

EDIT: Don't know about the dextrin. Stars containing large amounts of red gum are supposed to be prone to becoming driven in, and can be difficult to handle (sticky), which may be why the formula uses a dextrin binder.

k phoenix, i mixed made the stars last night and when i was making them i used 50/50 alcohol/water mixture as the solvent. i put it in a big plastic bag to mix it. some of the mixture was sticking to the sides and i think it was the redgum and alcohol making it stick. i guess i will use water only as a sovent next time. they should be dry later today so i will get back and let u know.

[The_Djinn]

k phoenix, i mixed made the stars last night and when i was making them i used 50/50 alcohol/water mixture as the solvent. i put it in a big plastic bag to mix it. some of the mixture was sticking to the sides and i think it was the redgum and alcohol making it stick. i guess i will use water only as a sovent next time. they should be dry later today so i will get back and let u know.

Dan, next time dont use plain water as you say near the end of your post.. try 95% water / 5% alcohol... the alcohol just helps break the surface tension of the water.

Mark

[Dan]

Dan, next time dont use plain water as you say near the end of your post.. try 95% water / 5% alcohol... the alcohol just helps break the surface tension of the water.

Mark

it does? i didnt now that. that cool. i thought it was just to make it dry quicker.
thx The_Dijinn
Dan

[Dan]

As a start, I might add an additional 5-10% chlorine donor, though that is really just a guess, and I have only done a small amount of experimentation with adding PVC to compositions, and not really that much with any colour comps. You could also try this Simizu formula, which Tom Perigrin says has a more intense colour than a Blesser formula, almost identical to Lancaster the one you have:

K Perchlorate.....66
Red Gum............13
Sr Carbonate......12
Lampblack*..........2
PVC**..................2
Dextrin.................5

*AF Charcoal should probably be OK
**I think that many chlorine donors, such as parlon, will function as well as PVC if you don't have it.

EDIT: Don't know about the dextrin. Stars containing large amounts of red gum are supposed to be prone to becoming driven in, and can be difficult to handle (sticky), which may be why the formula uses a dextrin binder.

it does? i didnt now that. that cool. i thought it was just to make it dry quicker.
thx The_Dijinn
Dan

Phoenix i just lit the two formulas and urs came out a bit darker but that might de due to the red gum that got stuck to the walls of the bag i was using to mix the batch. they were cut stars though.

[adamw]

Basically you should add more carbon (charcoal or lampblack). If your star is 'pink' then definately add some lampblack to make it actually 'red'.