65 replies to this topic

[miniskinny]

Yeah, as Richard said, Chlorates are good for oxidizers in smoke compositions (if you go to Skylighter and buy a bulk smoke kit, you need to add chlorate) but since it's so unstable, making anything out of it excepting gently-burning comps is not a good idea. substituting any chlorate for any oxidizer is a decision poorly made. I haven't had any run-ins with it myself; I only use it for the smoke kits. As a beginner, you shouldn't begin to look at chlorates. Check ebay, they have plenty of KNO3, I just bought 18 pounds offa there for forty bucks, which is pretty good.

[Jerronimo]

What's with the sudden chlorate ''flaming''?

I totally agree that a beginner should not mess with chlorate compositions or any other powerfull oxidiser for that matter.

If one has the right facilities to proper handle chlorate compositions, I see no reason why they should not be used,they produce superior colors and brightness opposed to KClO4
The Maltese use it as their sole oxidiser in colored compositions.....

[Richard H]

I agree with you 90%. The Maltese use chlorates all the time, although personally I prefer metal based star comps, and of course using chlorate with these is not advisable. The fact is, do YOU have the right facilities to use chlorates 'safely'?

A metal based star using KCLO4 is incredibly bright, and serves the needs of any pyro.

[Pretty green flames]

Cunning_plan......
I suggest you read this thread to learn a thing or two abouth chlorate safety
if you have not yet read it

http://www.ukrocketr...owtopic=676&hl=

[cunning_plan]

right, working on the basis i cant get perc, and for basics chlorate is a bit to dogy, ive got some more kno3 and am using that. just made some more basic mixtures. what would people suggest as a binder for bp based mixtures after dextrin?

[alany]

Laundry Starch is probably the most accessable and is actually superior to Dextrin IMO, but making yellow Dextrin isn't difficult, have a search it has probably been discussed here before, if not Google will find the process.

There are many, many aqueous binders to choose from, mostly polysaccharide products of one form or another. Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch is one of the best but can be difficult to find, "Rice Starch" is pretty common but isn't quite the same thing, it will work OK however. Various commercial modified cellulose products are available at hardware and food stores like Carboxymethylcellulose (CMC) and Starpol (trade name of a industrial starch - there are hundreds like Staramic, Stadex, Koldex, Clearcote all with different properties, especially their solution rheology and drying/finish properties).

Natural gums like Gum Arabic are still around, but tend to be expensive and tacky driers.

[pritch]

sorry but that hammer thing made me laugh out loud for real. You must have the same safety manuals as homer simpson

[cunning_plan]

re binders:
thanks will look into it tonight.
re hammer:...well it was a minute amount and nohing ad hapened when i dpropped some so ...big hammer from a distance, most likely safer than lighting it considering i was mcuh further away?

[adamw]

cunning_plan


Please forget all about Perc and Chlorate until you master making stuff with KNO3. A lot of stuff can be made with just this (stars, rockets, shell burst, Black powder, fountains). You don't need chlorates yet.

[cunning_plan]

i have made kno3 comps, as i said early in this topic(i think)the question i was asking i how dangerouse are they. they were what i was using original aswel as kno3 and was wodering if i could use them instead. as obviouse i now know not to.i have made kno3(cia method i think) and compressed it into pucks the issue im having is they are cracking.any ideas what could cause this? sorry not to post in bp thread it was a bit off topic.

[alany]

Too much moisture and not enough pressing generally.

[cunning_plan]

OK firstly finaly got my bp working well. seems to burn nicely and worked as pucks. what size would it be advisable to break is down into?

secondly on the subject of chlorates and sulphur being a realy big no no. would they be safe enough to use together if it was high grade sulphur(so not acidic) and was kept in a way to prevent it taking in moisture or i read somewhere(and am very scepticle) that the composition could be made more safe using an "alkaline buffer such as magnesium carbonate". i presume this would stop the sulphur becoming acid and setting everything off.

just to make sure everyone knows i am not going to try this or anything else with chlorates for a long time. i just wondered if it is correct.

[Pretty green flames]

Chlorates and Sulphur DO NOT BELONG TOGETHER......End of story.

[cunning_plan]

that i agree to but that wasnt the point i raised. would it work scientificly even if its still a bit risky in practice(as before im not going to try it). it would also be useful to know so i can see if this book is wrong because if so then surely there could be other prblems with it.

[Richard H]

To which book do you refer?