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1997 Fireworks(Safety)Regulations;unfair reclassification of fireworks?


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#1 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:36 AM

:) When these controls came in, quite a few fireworks which DIDN'T fall foul of the rules regarding classification to Cat4 because of their explosive power etc unfortunately DID end up in Cat4!!! I personally think the powers were too wide ranging and ultimately meant lots of supposedly safe and useable cat3 unfairly got picked up on by the Govt and slapped into Cat4 OR firework companies in the UK over-reacted and branded them Cat4. Were the powers unfair, and if so has it put lots of safe items out of the reach of the public? And with that I mean legal Cat3 like candles/cakes/barrages/large fountains/mines/rockets and roman candles NOT shells and other powerful devices that would be considered as contenders for cat4 status. :)

Edited by Anthony, 11 October 2005 - 09:37 AM.


#2 BigG

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:34 AM

:) When these controls came in, quite a few fireworks which DIDN'T fall foul of the rules regarding classification to Cat4 because of their explosive power etc unfortunately DID end up in Cat4!!! I personally think the powers were too wide ranging and ultimately meant lots of supposedly safe and useable cat3 unfairly got picked up on by the Govt and slapped into Cat4 OR firework companies in the UK over-reacted and branded them Cat4. Were the powers unfair, and if so has it put lots of safe items out of the reach of the public? And with that I mean legal Cat3 like candles/cakes/barrages/large fountains/mines/rockets and roman candles NOT shells and other powerful devices that would be considered as contenders for cat4 status. :)

You will have to be a bit more specific then that. What items do you refer too?

Generally, there will always be a community that feels that legislation is unfair. See for example hunting with dogs.

Yes, I myself feel that some measures that were introduced ? including some in the recent 2005 regulations, that are taking away rights from those who enjoy fireworks safely. But the argument of ?are those fair? require much more then the members of the BPS to introduce fair representation of all sides.

The one point I must make, is that one of the reasons the BPS was started was to argue for fair legislation in the future and represent the public ? the one sector that has no representation in this area at all!

Of course, for this to happen, we need members to join us. So we will see what happens when membership opens.

#3 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 12:04 PM

You will have to be a bit more specific then that. What items do you refer too?

Generally, there will always be a community that feels that legislation is unfair. See for example hunting with dogs.

Yes, I myself feel that some measures that were introduced ? including some in the recent 2005 regulations, that are taking away rights from those who enjoy fireworks safely. But the argument of ?are those fair? require much more then the members of the BPS to introduce fair representation of all sides.

The one point I must make, is that one of the reasons the BPS was started was to argue for fair legislation in the future and represent the public ? the one sector that has no representation in this area at all!

Of course, for this to happen, we need members to join us. So we will see what happens when membership opens.

I can name some items in Cat3 that were unfairly swooped on and recategorised into Cat4 in the 1997 regs;
Red Lantern 90-Shot Singing Birds Roman Cake,
Wutai Mountain 10-Shot Crackling Comets Roman Candles,
Giant Swiss Volcano,
Red Lantern Splendid Sound 90-Shot Cake,
Red Lantern Silvery Swallow 80-Shot Cake,
Red Lantern 90-Shot Blossom After Spring Thundering Cake,
and many many more (too many to list here!) <_<

Edited by Anthony, 11 October 2005 - 01:18 PM.


#4 ChesterPFX

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 01:18 PM

I guess that alot of stuff that got categorised as Cat4 failed to meet the Cat3 criteria under BS7114, possibly in the required fall out distances.

#5 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 01:22 PM

I guess that alot of stuff that got categorised as Cat4 failed to meet the Cat3 criteria under BS7114, possibly in the required fall out distances.

Yes but a lot of these items have survived under Cat3 for many years and were imported by Standard Fireworks of Huddersfield for mail order retailers and have generally met the Cat3 specs for fallout, debris, fuse burn times etc (and have) complied with BS7114;part2;1988, so how could that be? :glare:

#6 BigG

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 02:22 PM

I can name some items in Cat3 that were unfairly swooped on and recategorised into Cat4 in the 1997 regs;
Red Lantern 90-Shot Singing Birds Roman Cake,
Wutai Mountain 10-Shot Crackling Comets Roman Candles,
Giant Swiss Volcano,
Red Lantern Splendid Sound 90-Shot Cake,
Red Lantern Silvery Swallow 80-Shot Cake,
Red Lantern 90-Shot Blossom After Spring Thundering Cake,
and many many more (too many to list here!) <_<


This is not what I meant when I said ?be specific?. I was thinking about a list of reclassification that you thought were unfair. I assume you have the 1997 re-classification document to hand, as well as all consultation in regards to it.

Many standards are affected by harmonization. Meaning you can have a standard referring to a ? let?s say ? a maximum noise level of 180db ? that is harmonized with Consumer Act for maximum noise level for consumer products. Now, it could be that a change in the CONSUMER ACT will basically, by harmonization, will change classifications in referring documents, such as the BS7114.

Now, since BS7114 is almost history, I really think that looking at the reasons for the re-classification have nothing more then nostalgic value. We need to look to the new standard and it?s effect on the industry. The new standard for example, might affect all small headers / inserts and virtually will send the majority back to R&D. Some of the modern effect that wins outstanding review are very likely to disappear (I am just dying to see how triple-h effect will survive new standard). Anyway, if you really want to investigate the re-classification of 1997, I?ll put it on list of things members want me to do, but I have to admit it wont be very high up? let me see, position 107 on my current list.

P.S ? I was corrected by a member (and in this case, justly so), and I wish to correct my previous post. The consultation for the MSER did include members of the public in good proportion. I?m just not sure they represent a real demographic representation of public views. I think the BPS as an organization is much more in a position to tell true from fiction and protect the public from biased ?news generated? view.

#7 The_Djinn

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 08:54 PM

let?s say ? a maximum noise level of 180db ? that is harmonized



I know it was an example.. but it is 120db :P

Edited by The_Djinn, 11 October 2005 - 08:54 PM.

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#8 BigG

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 07:25 AM

I know it was an example.. but it is 120db :P

You smart ass - I know it's 120db. It Was An Example!!! Do you know what it was before the 120DB was decided? Do you know the RPCA wanted 95? They got 120 - be happy.

#9 sizzle

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 09:19 AM

You smart ass - I know it's 120db. It Was An Example!!! Do you know what it was before the 120DB was decided? Do you know the RPCA wanted 95? They got 120 - be happy.


Do you by any chance mean the RSPCA when you say RPCA?
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#10 BigG

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 10:13 AM

Do you by any chance mean the RSPCA when you say RPCA?

yes.




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