38 replies to this topic

[barra69]

Parabolic, thank you for your opinion. My experience with small arms, up to and including the 30mm rarden cannon was gained over 22 years in the forces. Two points of interest, I humped a gpmg around for the first two years of my service and believe me the the only time emptys smoked was when there was too much oil on the working parts. Secondly, with some natures of ammo emptys may give off a little smoke if the air is very humid. Its a bit like the large muzzle flashes you see on tv, military weapons have flash illiminators to minimise flash because its undesirable.
I load my own ammo and I use a powder called Varget. In both 7.62mm (308 Winchester) and 5.56mm (.223 Remington) I can guarantee you that when fired from a cold barrel the emtys extracted do not smoke. That is not an opinon though, I can see it.

[Stuart]

Parabolic, a well oiled air rifle with have barrel smoke the first few times its fired, never mind one using live ammunition.

[parabolic]

Parabolic, a well oiled air rifle with have barrel smoke the first few times its fired, never mind one using live ammunition.

Stuart, thats something else completely different which is called dieseling.

Barra69, I also load my own ammunition and also agree that not much smoke is in the case but rather more in the barrel, perhaps this is because the case cannot be extracted quick enough,. and only if the case can be extracted quick enough you will see more smoke in the case?.

Edited by parabolic, 09 December 2005 - 08:16 PM.

[barra69]

Greetings Parabolic,
It all depends on many things. First is the type of powder, single or double base. Next is the relative humidity. In my experience cold damp weather occasionaly causes a waft of smoke to be visible. Next comes barrel temp. Hot barrels do strange things, for example a tracer that should ignite at about 110m will ignite in the barrel.

Going back to my initial input: if a weapon (especially something that has auto capability) is overly oiled or oil has been left in the barrel or chamber, the brass being ejected gets very hot. Any oil on the ejected brass, especially if the brass is in piles evaporates off giving the impression that it is smoke from inside the brass. A classic for this was the gpmg, especially in the sustained fire role when experienced soldiers would often pour oil into the working parts to keep the thing working.

It must be remembered that nobody in a military environment wants his ejected brass to smoke. It kind of points the finger. All so, all this becomes null and void when blanks are used.

I have found that when I load the 44m with 200G SWC and Hodgdons HS6 (6.5grains) and I use kapok to fill the case, there are times when that may smoke, however that is a shotgun powder, and dirty with it.
I am sure that we will beg to differ on this point, however each opinion is base on personal experience. By the way, what are you shooting at present?

Edited by barra69, 09 December 2005 - 09:27 PM.

[Stuart]

Stuart, thats something else completely different which is called dieseling.

True, but your initial post suggested that the oil would have nothing to do with the smoke. I made my post to point out that even in an air rifle, oil will generate smoke, never mind in the barrel or on the case thats just been heated to very high temperatures by the propellant.

Now, oil from the working parts can easily be transfered to the case when its loaded, especially when well oiled, as barra69 has pointed out. It doesnt take much to work out that the oil on the case stands a chance of smoking when its heated to very high temperatures from the propellant.

[parabolic]

By the way, what are you shooting at present?

barra69,
Iam Currently shooting 22-250win, 6.5-284norma, and 44 rem mag.
22.250 for general varmints, 6.5 is mainly used for f-class. 44 rem mag for plinking fun.

[barra69]

Parabolic,
are you shooting comp at all with 44m (presume its a lever action)? I use the .223 (Rem 700 PSS) for varmints, not as noisy as 22-250. Got to say though with the amount of powder the 22-250 burns the smoke you see will be your barrel vapourising.

[parabolic]

Parabolic,
are you shooting comp at all with 44m (presume its a lever action)? I use the .223 (Rem 700 PSS) for varmints, not as noisy as 22-250. Got to say though with the amount of powder the 22-250 burns the smoke you see will be your barrel vapourising.

,
I fitted a reflex sound moderator to the 22.250, I use it mainly at night, and it sounds about as loud as a HV 22lr. I dont realy mind the barrel wearing, I can make a new one when i need one caus i make barrels for a living. . I built all of my rifles infact but apart from the 44mag, which is a rossi brake barrel,...dont get one caus there rubbish!, ill be making a new barrel for that sometime in the near future.

Edited by parabolic, 13 December 2005 - 07:32 PM.

[barra69]

Parabolic,
would it be ok to pm you?