26 replies to this topic

[EnigmaticBiker]

actually, appartently NaOH is used in making some foods, including some pretzels.

A totally new forum thread!

Modern pyro cuisine

Such titles as:-

"Cooking with caustics"
"Transition metal seasonings"
"Hardcore Barbecueing with flash"
"Copper Cordon bleu"

[fishy1]

here's a recipe for anyone interested.

Dough: (makes 5 dozen)


1 oz salt
1 oz sugar
1 oz shortening
2 oz yeast
4 lbs flour
1 quart milk (or use water w/ 4 oz milk powder)


Lye Dip:


6 oz caustic soda
1 gallon water


You will also need pretzel salt.


Oven: 400 degrees F


Directions:


Prepare the dough by first disolving the yeast in the milk/water. Mix in the
other ingredients, gradually adding the flour until you obtain a good stiff
dough. Divide the dough into increments and form them into pretzels as
follows. Given a stick of dough, about 1/2 in in diameter and 8 inches long,
roll the stick starting from the middle and working outwards, so that the
stick ends up tapered towards the ends. Keep rolling, starting over in the
middle whenever necessary, until the piece is about two feet long. Tie a
pretzel knot, squeezing the ends very tightly. Place on a lightly floured
towel in a warm place so that the dough can rise. We used dedicated boards at
Schmid's bakery because we made so many pretzels each day. Keep making the
pretzels. When finished, allow the pretzels to rise until they are about the
size you desire, usually less than one-half hour. Transfer the pretzels to
a cold place in your work area, possibly a refrigerator, although opening a
window and using a fan should work well. After about ten minutes of exposure,
you will notice that the pretzels have a noticeable 'skin'. They are now
ready for dipping and baking.


Put on latex gloves - caustic soda is dangerous stuff - and eye goggles as
well. Dip the pretzels in the caustic soda (see below) and place them on a hot baking
pan. Sprinkle with pretzel salt. Bake in the 400 degree oven until the
pretzels are golden brown - around 30 minutes. Enjoy!


Caustic Soda mix:


Put one gallon of cold water in a large plastic bucket. slowly add six ounces
of caustic soda, stirring constantly. You will want to wear plastic gloves
and glasses whenever handling this stuff. It stores well (actually it stores
forever).


Notes:
1. Don't be scared of dipping the pretzels in the caustic soda. Yes, it's
poisonous, but the baking eliminates the trouble, and it gives the pretzels
the great taste and texture of authentic German pretzels.
2. Some 'soft' pretzel manufacturers use baking soda dips instead of the
caustic soda. While we Schmids thought such practices as nonsense, we
appreciated other bakers doing this, since our pretzel business was never
threatened by them.

[damocov]

Pottasium carbonate - allso known as "Potash".

Why not make it the good old fashioned way it's been made for centuries!

Burn a pile of wood, soak the ash in water, recrystalise the potash from the solution.

You will get a mix of sodium and pottasium carbonate, but as sodium carbonate is less soluble in water you can elimate the later by slowly evaporating and decanting off the first set of crystals formed.

Just thought I'd clarify the last comment, about 10-15% of crude potash is sodium carbonate with the rest being potassium carbonate.

If you evaporate slowly and collect the crystals in batches then once you have got rid of all the water, you just ditch the first 20% by weight of crystals collected.

[Pretty green flames]

Why not make it the good old fashioned way it's been made for centuries!

Becouse the total weigth of carbonate is about 50times smaller than the starting weigth of ashes.
To put it more simple. You get 30 grams of K2CO3 from 10 kilos of Ashes. Is it worth it, no.

[fishy1]

Becouse the total weigth of carbonate is about 50times smaller than the starting weigth of ashes.
To put it more simple. You get 30 grams of K2CO3 from 10 kilos of Ashes. Is it worth it, no.

not to mention, you need to burn huge amounts of wood to get enough ash.

[EnigmaticBiker]

Pottasium carbonate - allso known as "Potash".

Why not make it the good old fashioned way it's been made for centuries!

Burn a pile of wood, soak the ash in water, recrystalise the potash from the solution.

You will get a mix of sodium and pottasium carbonate, but as sodium carbonate is less soluble in water you can elimate the later by slowly evaporating and decanting off the first set of crystals formed.

Just thought I'd clarify the last comment, about 10-15% of crude potash is sodium carbonate with the rest being potassium carbonate.

If you evaporate slowly and collect the crystals in batches then once you have got rid of all the water, you just ditch the first 20% by weight of crystals collected.

Have you tried this yourself?

It needs to be done on a LARGE scale to get a useful yield.

[Andrew]

A totally new forum thread!

Modern pyro cuisine

Such titles as:-

"Cooking with caustics"
"Transition metal seasonings"
"Hardcore Barbecueing with flash"
"Copper Cordon bleu"

There seems to be a little confusion between hydroxide and hydrogen carbonate.



If anyone is still stuck for a supplier Instant Message me, I know of several retailers in the UK.

[BlackSky]

Thanks fishy1 for the recipe.

The old fashioned may need to burn a forest to get the needed quantity.

Thanks for the info.

Edited by BlackSky, 08 March 2006 - 07:19 PM.

[damocov]

Have you tried this yourself?

It needs to be done on a LARGE scale to get a useful yield.

Yes I have, and yes you do need a lot of wood, but if you've taken down about 2-3 largish trees ( I think we used 2 silver birch that had to be removed because of a fungal infection at the base) and were going to burn them anyway it's not actually that impractical to get a few hundred grams.

Also if you have a woodburning stove and regularly have to empty your ash somewhere it's only a couple of weeks worth of ash you need to store to build up a useable quantity.

Admittedly if you live in a city and don't often chop down trees and clear woodland, hedges or gardens and have mains gas or electric it's going to be a bit more difficult but it might be an option for some of us, so there was no need to be quite so dismissive of it.

As to the question of "is it worth it?", well if it's not worth learning a bit then why don't you just go and buy your BP ready made (or even your fireworks for that matter).

I was actually making the suggestion as an educational exrcise.

I think that, too many people in today's society just rely on the internet or supermarket to buy their goods without thinking about what goes into making them.

I'll remember not to make any suggestions ever again and crawl back into my corner and hide away my enthusiasm for chemistry and sharing the knowledge of how our forefathers used to do things.

[EnigmaticBiker]

[quote name='damocov' date='Feb 20 2006, 11:58 PM' post='24235']
Yes I have, and yes you do need a lot of wood, but if you've taken down about 2-3 largish trees ( I think we used 2 silver birch that had to be removed because of a fungal infection at the base) and were going to burn them anyway it's not actually that impractical to get a few hundred grams.[/quote]

So have I and burn wood too.

Also if you have a woodburning stove and regularly have to empty your ash somewhere it's only a couple of weeks worth of ash you need to store to build up a useable quantity.

Not that much though.

Admittedly if you live in a city and don't often chop down trees and clear woodland, hedges or gardens and have mains gas or electric it's going to be a bit more difficult but it might be an option for some of us, so there was no need to be quite so dismissive of it.

Not dismissive myself; Creative use of the phrase "a bit more difficult", can anyone living in a city help me out here?

As to the question of "is it worth it?", well if it's not worth learning a bit then why don't you just go and buy your BP ready made (or even your fireworks for that matter).

Not guilty, deep breaths, count to ten.

I was actually making the suggestion as an educational exrcise.

And I was responding with mild surprise at the amount of material necessary.

I think that, too many people in today's society just rely on the internet or supermarket to buy their goods without thinking about what goes into making them.

Too true, I build my own beer and brew motorcycles.

I'll remember not to make any suggestions ever again and crawl back into my corner and hide away my enthusiasm for chemistry and sharing the knowledge of how our forefathers used to do things.

Don't do that, it's fun answering. I enjoy being facetious.
[/quote]

[BlackSky]

Dear damocov,

Thanks for your great help and info. you offer . We were just making a little jokes in the discussion. I really, like your experience and it is a great thing to have someone looking for scince not only getting things ready made.
But sometimes our friends are joking to avoid boring of the subject.

Regards

[EnigmaticBiker]

Dear damocov,

Thanks for your great help and info. you offer . We were just making a little jokes in the discussion. I really, like your experience and it is a great thing to have someone looking for scince not only getting things ready made.
But sometimes our friends are joking to avoid boring of the subject.

Regards

Damocov,

Agree with Blacksky, I have made K2CO3 by a similar method, the original methods are interesting.

Most of what I do with pyro is on the chemistry side. Law and personal circumstances mean I won't be firing 3 inch shells, but enjoy manipulating the compositions.

I'm not bored by details, but sometimes can't resist an opportunity for humour.

Simon