153 replies to this topic

[ash]

No, not super accurate scales, just to 0.1g. I hadnt thought of the errors involved - my physical chemistry lab supervisor would be devastated that that wasn't the first thing that came into my head

dfk - The KNO3 and S were from labpak so they are both LR's - so no problem with purity, the C as I said was willow charcoal from an art store, theres nothing on it to say theres any additives in it so Im assuming it just pure charcoal.

The next attempt will have to wait a few weeks because Im going on holiday but hopefully I'll get it to work before going back to uni - they take a dim view on people experimenting in the halls of residence!

[Phoenix]

You can make perfectly serviceable BP without a ball mill. Grinding in a pestle and mortar is risky, but probably OK for <1g batches with the appropriate safety gear. However, if you want to make a usable quantity, even 10g, you will find that a pestle and mortar is not only unsafe, but also pretty hard, dull work. However, you can make usable BP quickly and easily by the precipitation method. There is a good description of this in ?Introductory Practical Pyrotechnics,? but if you don?t have this, there is a good procedure on Wouter Visser's page. There are some changes I would recommend though:

2. I?d just use 15g of C and 10g of S, and you can then powder these in a together coffee grinder or pestle and mortar. Grinding this mixture like this is OK, since there is no oxidiser. (The potassium nitrate does not need to be powdered, since it will be completely dissolved in the boiling water).

3. Obviously you will need 150ml of alcohol. Any reasonably pure kind will do ? methylated spirit is fine.

Finally, do not do this inside. I know it?s obvious, but Wouter doesn?t mention it. The powder grains that result will be quite fragile, and the powder won?t be as fast burning as ball milled powder, but if you use a little more of it that shouldn?t be a problem. The Maltese make a lot of their powder like this, without ball mills or presses.

[The_Djinn]

Actually really good BP can be achieved with a mortar and pestle... and safely.
It just a case of grinding each component separately and using the diaper method to mix the ingredients at the end of the process.
At the end of the day all the ball mill is doing is taking all the tedious arm and elbow work out of the grinding process for you.
By adding alcohol/water solution and compressing into pucks to be broken down to various grain sizes also increases the efficiency.

Mark

[phildunford]

Hate to disagree, but unless you are prepared to grind away with your morter and pestle for about 12 hours, all you can hope to end up with is a green meal. Now don't get me wrong, this is very useful stuff, but it's not going to burn fast enough for lift or burst...

[Lil_Guppy]

Now don't get me wrong, this is very useful stuff, but it's not going to burn fast enough for lift or burst...

Actually it is reasonable for lift... Before I built my mill and got it up and running, I used mortar n pestle black powder to lift my shells. True you use a bit more (2-3 times) than ball milled powder, but it still works...

[Creepin_pyro]

I aggree with guppy. after compressing and granulating my "Mortar Meal", it manages to lift stuff. Not as well as commercial lift obviously, but it does the job.
Suppose I've only tested it in candles and mines, though.

[paul]

I wonder if noone of you tried coal from straw! It does a superb job in blackpowder compositions. Strawcoal is veryvery messy to use but very effective, too. When we make strawcoal we do it in an big pan over a open fire. So we get a 140g batch of it.
You don?t need to crush it into a powder. it is so breakable that you can put it with the sulfur direct intop the ball mill. Then after 45minutes you can add the potassium nitrate and mill for a few hours.

It is a very fast burnung powder... Some people say it is too sensitive to put it in ball mills but it isn?t.


It very usable for the mortar and pestle version, too. Its crushed easily in a very fine powder like wheatflour....

Edited by paul, 16 April 2004 - 10:01 AM.

[Kembang Api]

Have anyone use pine wood for charcoal? Is pine wood a softwood?

Thank you

[BigG]

Have anyone use pine wood for charcoal? Is pine wood a softwood?

Thank you

There are 8 pages in this thread Read them and I'm sure you'll find an answer. General answer - yes, pine is soft - yes, you can use pine. You can use hardwood as well.

[paul]

Ohoh. Thats not a really good question cause the usage of pine wood is discussed the pages before. Just search

Pine wood is good for crysamthemum stars etc. For black powder willow or other softwood is the better choice.


To the topic on the pages before: Why dou you guys all say that milling bp with a amount of water ends up in a mess?!

If you use exactly 6% water or a little less, the powder doesn?t get sticky... If you do so, you get very good blackpowder.



EDIT: I use poplar wood charcoal and strawcoal.

Edited by paul, 22 April 2004 - 03:06 PM.

[Stuart]

I add even less I think. About half a camera film case per 300g. Yay, 500 posts

[Phoenix]

The most water I am ever able to add is around 1.5%. If I add any more, certainly as much as 6%, the charge ends up caked in one end of the jar. The charge is by no means "sticky," just a bit clumpy. My ingredients are not particularly damp, so I don't think it is that. Has anyone else had this problem?

[chim-chim]

The most water I am ever able to add is around 1.5%. If I add any more, certainly as much as 6%, the charge ends up caked in one end of the jar. The charge is by no means "sticky," just a bit clumpy. My ingredients are not particularly damp, so I don't think it is that. Has anyone else had this problem?

That's what happens to me, not damp or sticky, just packed. I'd like to use the water for the safety as well as dissolving the nitrate a bit (which happens during ricing, so it's less of an issue), but when ever open the lid it looks like a giant core-burner full of fishing wieghts. I have a better ball mall and media than I did the last time I tried using any water, perhaps I should try again. I've seen some people use straight water, some use alcohol/water to wet the sulfur. Any comments? What percentage of alcohol? Isopropyl OK? Does it make a difference which alcohol you use?

Thanks all,
Keep safe.

[paul]

I found, that it is only possible to add so much water (6%) to blackpowder that is made with strawcoal...

For blackpowder with poplar charcoal 6% water is too much. Don?t know why this is so, but it certainly is

Might be the different surface of the charcoal particles.....

[Rhodri]

Sure this problem can happen quite easily.

Once I was milling BP with 5% water. Upon checking the jar after a few hours, I had noticed that all I had left a large 'rolled star' toward the top of the container.

Now, first time this happened I knew it was to do with the fact that I'd used the same jar with a previous batch of powder + dextrin. Even small amounts of dextrin can cause this phenonemon.

* Always clean out you jars THROUGHLY with water, wipe and then air dry.

You may also find that certain types of C may 'clump' with water more so than others.

** If you find this to be the case then reduce the % of water and make sure that the sulphur (yes S! This has electrostatic actvity) is not 'clumped' before adding to the C.

*** Furthermore, ensure that your jar is not overfilled with very soft C- (ball milling technique here.) Typical examples being Willow or Blackberry - these will contain thermally denatured carbohydrates (similar to dextrin) and will naturally gel with the addition of a suitable phase solvent (water).

In summary: Keep your apparatus clean, know your C and do not overfill your jar.

Edited by Rhodri, 22 April 2004 - 07:24 PM.