34 replies to this topic

[maxman]

Can anyone tell me are there any web sites where i can buy potassium perchlorate in the UK for a whistle mix? I know that Rayco sell sodium benzoate but can you use anthing else like kno3 or potassium chlorate ?

[Richard H]

Please search! In short you cannot easily buy potassium perchlorate.

Please read our user guide, and welcome to the forum.

[Stuart]

Yes indeed wlecome. You sound like you know what you are talking about and not just another kewl kid who wants to make some b*ombz.

[adamw]

If one more person starts a topic on where to buy KCLO4 I think my head will detonate. That topic has been posted to death, and we'd all really appreciate it if you searched!

[bernie]

poke, poke , jab:lol:

[maxman]

Thanks alot now I feel very welcome to your forum! A straight answer would have been more helpfull

[bernie]

I honestly think that the people on this forum are very helpful. Your missing the point. It's all garbled up because there are so many different O4 posts. The more we answer the worse it gets. It gets frustrating. My impression of the forum is that unless your a complete nincompoop your welcomed with open arms. We love talking pyro. Relax a wee bit and you'll get the hang of things.

Adam is a very knowledgeable and helpful member. We can't possibly stand to lose him to massive head detonation.

[Phoenix]

I said,

I'm sure if anyone has a working nitrate formula many members would feel far happier about pressing it than the chlorate formula they'd have to use otherwise.

Then Matt said,

Oh I think youd rather press flash than the nitrate whistle

Because,

There is a potassium nitrate/ potassium picrate whistle. This mix is rather dangerous and explosive.

Ah...I hadn't really thought of that. I was thinking of a mix of nitrate and a benzoate or salycilate (which presumably would be friendlier than than the same with chlorate). I've heard enough about picrates to know that I probably would rather press flash.

PS: No, I'm not a BPS member.

[Stuart]

I was looking through the PFP database when I stumbled over an easy whistle mix by Shimizu. It is 75:25 Potassium Chlorate:Gallic acid. It does say that it should be avoided and I was wondering how likely am I to die if I mix it? I am sure I have seen Gallic acid somewhere before for sale, does anyone know where it is sold?

Stuart

[Rhodri]

Gallic acid can be extracted from Acorns. It is classed as a 'posion' because it chelates metals. Similar to Oxalic acid which can be found in green onions and potatoes. These are not very good for you because the acid chelates (locks in a structure) Ca for example. All oxalates / gallates are very insoluble so you can end up with kidney stones.

Incidentally, gallic it is used as an analytical reagent because it forms beautiful coloured complexes when minute traces of certain metals are present.

Its chelating effect may be the reason why it's good for whistle mixes. The K may be held within a lattice of the acid. This may then generate the vibrations needed for a whiste.

Looks like you've got to put the kettle on and make some acorn tea Stu!

Seriously though, I wouldn't recommend mixing chlorate with 'impure' Acorn extract.

One may be able to procure some gallic acid because as mentioned, it is an analytical reagent. Try Labpack?

Edited by Rhodri, 30 January 2004 - 09:41 AM.

[MrBungle]

If one more person starts a topic on where to buy KCLO4 I think my head will detonate. That topic has been posted to death, and we'd all really appreciate it if you searched!

Somewhat off topic......

Get used to it.
I don't mean to be rude, but the fact is, it's only going to get worse.
How do I know? I've seen it all before.
I'm a member of the following forum:
http://www.rcgroups....?topic=air-elec
It used to look just like this one.
When I first registered there it was a nice friendly place with a couple thousand members, no advertising, the forum's server was fast and never got attacked, it was nice.
Now there's 27,000+ members, sometimes more than 1200 on at one time(900ish when I just had a look), there have been numerous server upgrades, advertising to pay for it all, even special memberships with bonuses to pay for it all, the server gets attacked by hackers/script kiddies etc on a fairly regular basis.
The admins/moderators and old-time members have given up on the "please search", I think most of them now just copy/paste the replies to common questions.
One moderator there has clocked up over 10,000 posts since I've been a member, I'm sure it would have to be a full-time job for him now.
To be totaly honest I don't even go there these days, too big and slow now.
And too many idiots.

I don't think pyrotechnics is a popular enough subject to attract a membership as large as that, lets hope not, it really has ruined what was once an awesome forum.

Sorry about the doom and gloom, I can't see this forum getting as big, but the membership here will grow, and the number of repetetive posts is likely to follow suit.

Simon

I just noticed they now have 2, 3 even 4 moderators per forum! It's really getting out of control.

Edited by MrBungle, 30 January 2004 - 04:42 PM.

[BigG]

Please do not replay to Mr bungle on this forum. You are more then welcome to do so in the general forum rather then this one. This is really off topic.

[MrBungle]

Yeah I know, sorry, that quote just kinda got me started...

[adamw]

Oh, get used to it?

Get used to this - I am an Administrator. You are not. It is my job to tell people to search. It is not your job to tell me to get used to it.

On another pyro forum that I used to moderate, someone like you with an outburst like that would have found themselves under the 'Ban' button. They were very strict.

If you dont like the way the forum is run, then you have the freedom to leave. Just dont make me force you to.

[alany]

Chlorate/Gallic acid whistles are very dangerous to make, some say more so than Nitrate/Picric acid ones. I'd stick to Perchlorate/Benzoate whistle, it is cheap and pretty safe compared to even Perchlorate/Salicylate whistle, but Salicylate whistle makes better rocket propellant.

Gallic acid is often extracted from tree galls or bark and is related to tannin (gallotanic acid), when heated it drops some carbon dioxide and becomes pyrogallol which is seperated as is sublimes off. Pyrogallol is an even more powerful reducing agent, and is often used in silver/halide photography as a developer.

As Rhodri said gallol and pyrogallol are quite poisonous because of their ability to complex with metals, people have died from falling into vats of the stuff when making dyes, but tannin is considered to be the good part of tea because of this ability to complex with heavy metals giving the kidneys a chance to remove them.

Edited by alany, 23 February 2005 - 12:14 AM.