17 replies to this topic

[Zinginex]

The Government make all these laws against "homemade" pyrotechnics and ban it's possession but there are all these websites around selling visco fuse for cheap and aluminium flake powder and potassium perchlorate. Too me it just looks really stupid and the government don't seem to be doing much about the websites. Also it's not even like the websites hide the fact its for pyrotechnic use as they say what it can be used for and the website only sells pyrotechnic chemicals/devices. It just seems so weird too me lol.

[Arthur Brown]

There are things that seem odd about the law and the way that it is interpreted! A LOT of the law on possession is contextual too. If a person has BBQ charcoal in a bag by the BBQ grill it's much less "interesting " than 400mesh charcoal labelled airfloat!

[Richard H]

I think a lot of these disreputable sellers basically ignore the law! I think when you start selling chemicals and posting fuse in a slap dash fashion, then it is clear you have no regard for the various regulations that concern such activities. The police certainly don't have the time to crack down on these rogue traders, look at the drug problem in this country to draw comparisons, for example.

[phildunford]

If there was an easier (legal) way for pyros to experiment, such that it could be demonstrated to the police that we are basically a harmless lot of eccentrics, then the situation would be alot simpler. As I understand it, this is one of the many avenues the society is persuing.

In this case it would be easier for legitimate suppliers to sell what we need. There is nothing intrinsically wrong in selling perc or aluminium - they are needed in many devices.

Shipping is another issue again. Laws are now (in my opinion) so ludicrously strict, that in small quantities, shipping fairly harmless chemicals is uneconomic by the proper means. This will always encourage suppliers to break the law...

[Arthur Brown]

According to A St. H Brock historically the laws on fireworks have been both tight and slack in cycles over the history of gunpowder. Overly tight regulation causes people to make illegal fireworks - let's face it BP ingredients are easy to find. Overly loose regulation means that fireworks are everywhere and poorly stored. The law has always been a very blunt instrument and has tried unsuccessfully to find the fine divide between over and under regulation, especially as public opinion and the immediate security situation can change so quickly.


There are lawful ways of learning about pyro and if you apply yourself to it there are lawful ways of doing pyro. Just that you have to jump through all the hoops in order.

[David]

If there was an easier (legal) way for pyros to experiment, such that it could be demonstrated to the police that we are basically a harmless lot of eccentrics

I know you are just using the term "eccentrics" in a loose and friendly way, but even so- I wouldn't use such a term.

I would tend to go with the argument that we are sensible, educated and professional individuals who partake of the hobby because we enjoy it.

The problem with this country is that anything people do for a hobby other than the standard "watching TV, textin and goin t'pub wiv me mates " tends to be thought of a "bit eccentric."

[EnigmaticBiker]

The problem with this country is that anything people do for a hobby other than the standard "watching TV, textin and goin t'pub wiv me mates " tends to be thought of a "bit eccentric."

Nothing wrong with eccentricity IMHO
It suggests a more interesting path than purely going around in circles.

The availability of pyro materials from these places cuts both ways, it can make it easier for criminal and dangerous uses as well as allowing harmless experimentation. I get the impression most serious misuse of fireworks is due to illegal imports of Cat3/4, sold to kids from the backs of a cars, not small pyro experiments.

I wonder how many people would be willing to pursue any interest in the hobby if all the sensible rules were fully enforced?
Say, CRB check, Cat 4 training, 'A' or degree level Chemistry, an acre or so of land, laboratory, manufacturing, council, police licences and a secure steel shed before you even buy fuse?

This analogy applied to vehicles, suggests that all non-emergency vehicles should be limited to 70Mph. The legal limit is 70Mph, 71Mph requires a private airfield or racetrack. Is there a commonly available car/bike limited to 70Mph?

Nothing is really that black and white.

[Zinginex]

Nothing wrong with eccentricity IMHO
It suggests a more interesting path than purely going around in circles.

The availability of pyro materials from these places cuts both ways, it can make it easier for criminal and dangerous uses as well as allowing harmless experimentation. I get the impression most serious misuse of fireworks is due to illegal imports of Cat3/4, sold to kids from the backs of a cars, not small pyro experiments.

I wonder how many people would be willing to pursue any interest in the hobby if all the sensible rules were fully enforced?
Say, CRB check, Cat 4 training, 'A' or degree level Chemistry, an acre or so of land, laboratory, manufacturing, council, police licences and a secure steel shed before you even buy fuse?

This analogy applied to vehicles, suggests that all non-emergency vehicles should be limited to 70Mph. The legal limit is 70Mph, 71Mph requires a private airfield or racetrack. Is there a commonly available car/bike limited to 70Mph?

Nothing is really that black and white.

Yeah i see what you mean. I don't know anything about how the police work but surely they have heard about these sites like united nuclear and skylighter from either random surfing the internet or heard about it from other people. But i do see what you mean about the laws. Guess I should be grateful that Potassium nitrate is still legally available lol

[portfire]

Guess I should be grateful that Potassium nitrate is still legally available lol

With the exceptional few, just about all chemicals are legally available (and possibly all if you have the right paperwork).It's the way there transported.If your posting hazardous material,it can cause alsorts of problems.If there sent buy special couriers and are stored in a safe manner then your fine

[MDH]

Better yet, most chemicals can be made anyway, and even the most abstract chemicals can be used to make illegal fireworks. If someone wanted, they could grind or file down a ton of magnesium and use calcium sulfate as an oxidizer. Laws againts the sale of oxidizers and dark aluminum are just making it harder for real pyros, although I suppose those of us who are dedicated will develop our own paths to the ingredients we require.

[Zinginex]

Better yet, most chemicals can be made anyway, and even the most abstract chemicals can be used to make illegal fireworks. If someone wanted, they could grind or file down a ton of magnesium and use calcium sulfate as an oxidizer. Laws againts the sale of oxidizers and dark aluminum are just making it harder for real pyros, although I suppose those of us who are dedicated will develop our own paths to the ingredients we require.

Yeah i see what you mean but I'm just suprised that people haven't found out about websites like United Nuclear and skylighter. Surely they must of taken about a minute to check on google for pyrotechnic chemicals and found countless wesbites that they want to ban? Or is that not how it works lol?

[portfire]

IMO,the police have bigger fish to fry.With forums like this one around,they can see that where just a group of people who have a love/passion for fireworks, and we mean no harm.

[YT2095]

I agree, the Police are NOT stupid, if they Really wanted folks like us we wouldn`t be here, and were NOT exactly hard-to-find, are we!?

We`re general Public with a Hobby, the Police are actually out there Protecting US from REAL threats that we will probably never even know anything about.

[MDH]

Lucky. In Canada they have a very different attitude.

[Arthur Brown]

In UK reality this forum forms a place where people interested in the pretty aspects of pyro can be relatively un bothered. The forum has been rather severe on some people who had tried to go too far from the pretty side to the dark side.

Yes I expect we have watchers from every organisation with initials! MI5 SO13 NCIS et al anyone who crosses the invisible and fine line between fireworks and the dark side can expect to be found very rapidly and dealt with!