21 replies to this topic

[lord_dranack]

It is quite easy to get hold of barium/strontium carbonate, but the nitrate is much more tricky to find (particualy barium). Is it safe to use in pyro nitrates that have been made by reacting the carbonate with dilute nitric acid, or is there too big a risk of spontaneous combustion from any acid present?

[phildunford]

I would think that if you took the reaction to the end-point there should be no free acid to worry about...

However, I have tried making Barium Nitrate this way and had very little luck. I actually tried it with the conc acid, but the reaction (although initially strong) was very prolonged and the solution never seemed to neutralise. It's possible that very long reaction with agitation might do the trick, but as I managed to get some Barium Nitrate I have given up for now...

[BigG]

It is quite easy to get hold of barium/strontium carbonate, but the nitrate is much more tricky to find (particualy barium). Is it safe to use in pyro nitrates that have been made by reacting the carbonate with dilute nitric acid, or is there too big a risk of spontaneous combustion from any acid present?

If you are not worried about working with nitric acid (which is an extremely nasty chemical, and will burn through lots of things, including your skin), then barium carbonate + nitric acid will give you barium nitrate. Barium nitrate is also a very nasty chemical that will kill you upon indigestion or excessive inhalation (a very good article about barium poisoning has been submitted on this site.)

The reaction between the two will be long, and you better use slightly more barium then needed – just to make sure the acid is fully naturalised.

Now – if you don’t know how to calculate how much you need of each – then you probably should not try this is all. I urge everyone to start with much more subdued reactions – for example make sodium oxalate from oxalic acid and sodium carbonate – it useful for pyro and the chemicals involved will not kill you if something goes wrong….

BigG

[lord_dranack]

I wasn't planning on using conc. nitric acid, for the wery reasons you mentioned above. The acid I will use is going to be 2M, but as yet I am undecided whether to use the carbonate in solution, as a sort of industrial scale titration, or as a solid. I think I will use the solution method. However, in my chemical catalogue the strontium nitrate is listed as anhydrous, so will strontium nitrate produced by reacting two solutions be unusable untill it is dehydrated?

[BigG]

I wasn't planning on using conc. nitric acid, for the wery reasons you mentioned above. The acid I will use is going to be 2M, but as yet I am undecided whether to use the carbonate in solution, as a sort of industrial scale titration, or as a solid. I think I will use the solution method. However, in my chemical catalogue the strontium nitrate is listed as anhydrous, so will strontium nitrate produced by reacting two solutions be unusable untill it is dehydrated?

Hmmm.

Lord, you will not get any response if you mix nitric acid and strontium carbonate as solids. PLEASE read some basic chemistry books and attempt a lesser reaction. Nitric Acid is quite nasty even well diluted.

USE GLASS CONTAINER or a container that is specified to hold nitric acid. Otherwise, you will have a nice little hole in your worktable and possibly on the floor.

You will need a Nitric Acid solution (mixed with purified water) to start with. You can not create a strontium carbonate solution simply because strontium carbonate is not soluble in water.

Then you add the strontium carbonate (small quantity at a time) in solid form to the nitric acid solution – which will generate a redox reaction and bubble heavily. When you finished adding the strontium carbonate wait for the reaction to die and test PH level to make sure the solution you got is slightly alkaline. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO HANDLE THIS SOLUTION UNLESS YOU ARE SURE IT’S ALKALINE!!!

Now you got a strontium nitrate solution. Get rid of the water by very slow simmering or by leaving in the sun for few weeks

BigG

[lord_dranack]

Doh! Of course, the alkali earth metal carbonates are sparingly soluable so how I could dissolve strontium carbonate I don't know! Next time I'll think my plan through a little more throughly before posting!

Thanks for that method, as soon as I have my strontium carbonate and a free weekend I'll try that. I know the dangers of nitric acid, and wouldn't dream of using it concentrated outside a fume cupboard. The nitric acid I have is 2 mols/dm3, which is the same concentration that we used to use back in year 7 in science.

By the way, I do read a lot of chemistry books (am doing a-levels), I was just typing without thinking!

[Stuart]

Do you live in the UK or the USA?

Stuart

[lord_dranack]

UK, Merseyside

[Stuart]

2mol/dm3 nitric acid in year 7? Wouldnt of though they would have let you play with that. I am doing A level as well

Stuart

[lord_dranack]

About the only fun thing we ever got to use in chem. As I recall, we were just testing the various pH levels of things.

[Stuart]

Ok, I am doing something realy fun (almost) for coursework. Titrametric analysis of how concentrated 25cm3 NaOH is by titrating it with 0.1M of HCl. Supprise supprise, the NaCl is 0.1M.

[lord_dranack]

That was the first titration I did in school. However it was somewhat pointless as on the NaOH bottle the concentration was written!

[Stuart]

Same here

[Arthur Brown]

School chemistry can be pretty simple. school gives you the established basics, degree brings you up to date and speed, postgrad pushes the forefront of the science.
Just get a copy of VOGEL inorg analysis and look at all the complications in titrations etc they are about 100 years old now but so are the atoms and their reactions.

[zanes]

ahh happy days.... kno3 was something like kono2. I've got something like that book, ? in- organic chemistry. might even tell you how to make some chems. I need to dig it out. will post here if i find any useful!