25 replies to this topic

[Bonny]

Thanks guys

The usual pool of wisdom and wise words that I am coming to expect. I even welcome El Fuegos remarks although they were a bit unexpected. They will certainly linger on in my mind and serve as a salutary reminder of the dangers. I hope I never experience his prophecy at first hand.

I have ordered some Boric Acid. I looked up Copper Chloride and the only place I could find it for sale it cost about £25.00 for 50g.

The Mystical Fire Powder looked great fun but what is in it? I will certainly make a note of it but I will try the Boric Acid first.

IIRC correctly, when reading the ingredients on a package of 'Mystical Fire' it contained both copper chloride and copper carbonate and maybe even some pvc.
You should be able to find copper carbonate at pottery shops (as well as other useful chems)

[GreenGenie]

It sounds to me as if putting it in a tube is regarded as unsafe by you guys. It also sounds as if mixing it to burn unconfined as a small pile would be alright. Also that nitrate is not recommended but sulphur is. Can anyone recommend a recipe? Are we talking small quantities only? What would you regard as a maximum safe quantity? Are there any special safety precautions that I need to take? I would like to try this if it is a safe and predictable composition.

[GreenGenie]

Actually, there are a few posts there that I had overlooked. I think my previous question has been answered. Although I dont know what "Black Powder, FFFFg 2" Creepin Pyro is referring to.

[Bonny]

Actually, there are a few posts there that I had overlooked. I think my previous question has been answered. Although I dont know what "Black Powder, FFFFg 2" Creepin Pyro is referring to.

The FFFFg (4Fg) is the grain size. See here:
http://www.skylighte...harts.asp#grain

[El Fuego Danza]

Boric acid and many other boron containing compounds could work too.



I am sorry about your friends accident, but I very much doubt he was informed as many people on here are. Such accidents usually, but not always are a result of people making a critical error due to lack of information or misinformation. Here, many of us manufacture fireworks as a hobby, but also make sure we have access to good information, and do our best to inform people who want to make fireworks.

I agree that the safest option is to leave it to the professionals. I however believe I am informed enough to make the choice to manufacture myself without being unaware of the risks.

I also completely agree with your comments on the less than reputable nature of many websites. By spreading misinformation they stain our more legitimate cause, as well as more importantly contributing to horrific injuries.

Roy, perhaps you can shed some light on the specifics of your friends accident. Perhaps I, and other people who manufacture fireworks as a hobby could learn a lesson.

[El Fuego Danza]

Hi, Seymore and Cold Colours,
Sorry, I seemed to have stepped on a few toes here!
I didn't realise that the forum contained members who actually manufacture Pyro devices / effects.

My only reason for joining this forum was to try to find a pro-pyro team to join, and to further my knowlage of fusing and timing etc with a view to being involved with more organised firework displays.

My appollogies if I have upset any-one, but on reading the post from Cold Colurs, I thought it better to risk an up-set rather than risking someone-else loosing a limb. (You never know how experienced some-one is , or is'nt, or for that matter, which non-member of this forum is reading the last few pages right now, as I did for a few weeks before joining)!

As regards the details of my friends "accident", I can only confirm that the "recipie" was found somewhere on the internet (even if I knew where, I would not post the address just incase any-one else chose to use it),and also, it was frieghtened to discover, that the entire constituants were availlable at local chemists, DIY stores and Gardening suppliers.

I have a few susspected chemicals in mind, ( and others which I know where used) though, for obviouse reasons, I am reluctant to name them!
The device he was trying to make was supposed to be a kind of "candell" effect,which was contained within a 3/4 " copper tube of about 8" long.
After mixing the compounds and loading them into the copper piping, he simply picked up the tube to take it outside to try it...

He didn't even get to leave his kitchen!

The compound was so voletile that the mere motion of picking it up was enough to make it fire!

The overall result of this "experiment", was that he spent the next three weaks in hospital (having his life saved), he lost his left arm from the elbow down, and therefore has had to re-learn everything from driving to tying his shoe laces, all this on top of keeping a wife and two kids!

As for me, well, I had the un-enviable task of re-building his kitchen before he got out of hospital.
This should have been a straight forward job for me, being a self-employed plumber at the time.

However, having to take down kitchen units which looked like they have been blasted with a shot-gun, digging bits of your best mates bones out of the ceiling before you start, and finding his left hand NEXT DOOR BUT TWO, sort of takes it's toll!

So now you know why I suggested using only proffessionally made pyro's!

Again, my appollogies to any-one who makes their-own...NO OFFENCE INTENDED!

I ONLY WANTED TO WARN THE UN-INFORMED!

I don't expect any sympathy for my mate, as he took it upon him-self to try this stuff, but I sincerely hope that this message will make ANYONE think twice or more about what they do with Pyro technology.
I only wish my mate had discovered this forum 10 years ago!
Thanks to people on this site, we will hopefully make our hobby safe for all!
Regards, Roy.

[GreenGenie]

Hi Roy

A truly terrifying tale you have there. It certainly paints a picture. I think the guys are going to want to know the recipe so that they can dissect it and explain it. I dont think you need to worry that anyone will be tempted to recreate the experiment. I dont think that putting the composition into a copper tube is going to win any admirers. Perhaps you could ask your mate for more details.

[Pretty green flames]

Not to sound to negative about the terrible accident, but it amazes me how to he managed to mix and load the composition into the tube and not blowing his hand up, but merely picking the tube up set it off....
Just goes to show, don't be stupid with organic peroxides.....

[seymour]

don't be stupid with organic peroxides.....

That is my guess too.

Sorry, I seemed to have stepped on a few toes here!

Apologies are not needed! Thank you for sharing with us the details of this terrible incident. I understand that it will have been deeply traumatic for you, not to mention your unfortunate friend, and sometimes people find it hard to discuss such events. I have no doubt that your story will make many of us reconsider the dangers of this hobby, myself included.

I actually do have sympathy for your friend. Especially with all the dodgy websites that say how something can be made, but do not give any information regarding the dangers, I understand how easy it could be to get sucked in to one of these websites without knowing the realities of the danger, or knowing better.

While I will not pretend that these forums are full of pure pyrotechnic gospel, we are fortunate to have a team of very sensible Administrators and Moderators who do a great job at making sure that the discussions involving pyrotechnic manufacture never stray from a focus on the artistic or scientific side of pyrotechnics, and that safety trumps all other concerns. For example, the only metal they encourage using is metal powders and salts for pretty colours and sparks!

By the way, welcome to the forum, and good luck getting a job with a display company.

Edited by seymour, 04 March 2009 - 09:51 PM.

[El Fuego Danza]

First of all, my appolgies to COLD COLOURS, as I seemed to haven "stolen" your thread.

Secondly, thanks to ALL for your wise and kind words regarding my friend's incident, I'm glad you all seem to understand why I felt it neccessary to put out this warning.

I will ask Paul (the friend in question), if he can remember the "recipie" and, if he is willing to talk about it, I will post the details in a new thread under the heading "HOW NOT TO MAKE A FIREWORK".

And to end this message, I would like to wish COLD COLOURS good luck with your latest creation, it seems with the help of this lot on UKPS, you should do OK.
BUT REMEMBER, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT, DON'T B&Q IT!

Regards, Roy.

P.S. How do I "cut" quotes from this forum in order to answer folks questions individualy?, and is it possible to send a message to a specific member via the forum?...
Rather than clog up COLD COLOURS' thread any longer, members can contact me direct with this info via email @ SteelemagicInc@aol.com
Thanks again, guys, for re-assuring me that have, at last, found a whorthwhile forum containg members with deceny and common sense!
Chat soon, Roy.

[seymour]

You can click on their name to go to their profile. You can then view their contact information. While some people may keep their email private, you can always send them a personal message.