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Sodium Bicarbonate Yellow Glitter


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#1 Mortartube

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 06:27 PM

Try this,

You can use fine flake Al instead of atomised. This will not keep very long so use within a week or two of making. Pump or cut stars. Makes good 50mm comets.

D1 (Glitter)

Potassium Nitrate 53.00%
Sodium BiCarbonate 7.00%
Dextrin 4.00%
Charcoal (Airfloat) 11.00%
Sulphur 18.00%
Aluminum (Atomized) 7.00%
Boric acid 1.00%


Wet with 10cc water per 100g mix

Keith
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#2 Rhodri

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 06:47 PM

Hi Mortartube!

I find glitter an amazing effect.

This 'recipie' looks most interesting.....respect for the boric acid :D

Will give this one a try!

:)
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#3 Mortartube

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 10:05 AM

Let us know how you get on. BTW It should have read Boric Acid +1% as it all adds up to 101% otherwise.
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#4 phildunford

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Posted 28 October 2003 - 08:40 PM

Tried your formula in a 20mm comet. Worked really well. Good breakup and glitter.

Only problem is that a bit of burning something always seems to fall back to earth, no matter how high put them up. Could be something to do with the aluminium I'm useing I guess - they are all so different.
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#5 Mortartube

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Posted 28 October 2003 - 11:07 PM

[quote name='phildunford' date='Oct 28 2003, 08:40 PM']Tried your formula in a 20mm comet. Worked really well. Good breakup and glitter.

Only problem is that a bit of burning something always seems to fall back to earth, no matter how high put them up. Could be something to do with the aluminium I'm useing I guess - they are all so different.[/quote]
[QUOTE]

Probably the sodium bicarbonate, it is a bit drossy, in fact the Spanish make a star called Chiravitas from bicarb, which breaks up into drips of yellow fire in the air. I haven't been able to find a formula for it yet but I'll keep trying.

Keith
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#6 Yugen-biki

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 11:37 AM

I have tried using sodium bicarbonate in some mixtures with chlorate PVC, parlon NaCl...
Sodium bicarbonate is the best combined with PVC and potassium chlorate. The collor is not as good as I hoped. More white then yellow :( .

#7 BigG

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 04:24 PM

Well, sodium bicarbonate compositions cannot be really white. It’s hard to get good whites with most compositions. Realgar and Antinomy Metal or Sulphide seems to give the best whites. All sodium salts give yellow colour. You don’t need chlorine donor either. Sodium really destroys any other colour. Even small amount of it will destroy the colour you are trying to produce.

#8 BurlHorse

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 04:42 PM

Hello all, New Guy here, From the good 'Ol USA, I have been reading alot of the posts and would like to offer up one of my Gold glitter formula's that works quite well, is cheap to manufacture and can be pumped, cut or rolled.

Bear's Gold Glitter #6

Pottasium Nitrate 48
Willow or Pine charcoal 11 - Airfloat, or use coffee grinder to turn it into dust ;)
Sulfer 8
Antimony Sulphide 10 - 200 Mesh Chinese Needle
Magnalium 12 - 50/50 or 40/60 alloy 120-325 mixed Mesh
Sodium Bicarb 7
Dextrin or Starpol 4

Ball mill nitrate, charcoal, sulfer and bicarb, the longer the better but a minimum of 4 hours if the first four ingredients are resonably fine to start with, a slight bit of methenol or isopropyl (99%) alcohol 5% added to the mill will help things along and lessen the risk of a ball mill boom. After milling, strain media from mill, and spread compound out on kraft paper to a thin layer, allow to dry for a day or so, then screen it through the finest seive/screen you have. Now incorporate the Antimony (Proper Saefty Gear hear, at least a quality dust/chemical respirator long sleeves and gloves, this stuff can and will make you sick :blink: ) Magnalium and dextrin, I generally use a large plastic bucket with a tight fitting lid, and shake rattle and roll until you are satisfied that everything is intimately mixed. You can now use the comp to roll, using water/alcohol 75/25, or pump or cut them using the bare minimum of same water/ alcohol mix to dampen the mix. I caution you that too much water is the biggest culprit in failed glitter effect, so use as little as possible if cutting or pumping them. The Varied Mesh of the Magnalium makes for a long hang time and many glitter flashes of different timings, Quite beautiful effect. These stars take fire easily and can be stored for a long time. You can prime with Meal D and +5% dextrin for a near 100% none blown blind. This is one of my prized formula's so I thought I'd use it to introduce myself.

There you have it, Sorry for the longwinded post, just trying to be complete
Cheers and Stay Green,

Bear
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#9 bernie

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 12:55 AM

Welcome aboard BurlHorse! I think your going to find Richards forum very entertaining on many different levels. I've heard quite a lot about the Crackerjacks. I'm a Floridian myself and have the good fortune of being a member of FPAG. Not sure why they let me in ( I lied and told them I would help cleanup after shoots) but they ain't kicked me out yet. Fiddled around with this or that over the years but nothing like most of the clubs members.

Looking forward to hearing more from you.

PS the Brits talk funny sometimes but you get used to it. ;)

#10 BurlHorse

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 04:28 AM

Hey there Bernie,

I've heard alot about FPAG, so we're even, Suffice to say it's good to be members of VALID clubs, be it FPAG or Crackerjacks, gives us who have smelt the smoke to ne'er be the same! Thanks for the reply and you can count on my being around here for a good long time. C'mon up as my guest for any CrackerJacks Shoot, just let me know when, we'll compare notes.

Stay Green,

Bear
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#11 Phoenix

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Posted 20 March 2004 - 09:47 PM

I made 100g of D1 glitter stars a couple of weeks ago, and I've just fired a 40mm can shell full of them. I was very pleased with the effect, and they were quite easy to make (cut nicely, dampened easily etc.) I used the composition from alany's site, which is a little different from the one above.

Would adding boric acid to this composition actually do anything? Wouldn't it just immediatly react with a little bit of the sodium bicarobonate, and be consumed, leaving the composition as basic as it was before? I guess the pH of the sodium bicarbonate makes this composition a little risky - I just treated it as if it was about to ignite at any time whilst it dried, but was obviously lucky.

Mortartube, do you know roughly what goes into those Chiravitas, if not the exact formula? I searched with Google, then Metacrawler, but couldn't find any reference to them apart from your one post. They sound interesting.

#12 alany

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Posted 21 March 2004 - 01:56 AM

I leave out the boric acid now, it seems pointless for small batches, especially with spherical Al. I'd approach larger batches with caution, but I've made up to 500 g batches (which is still quite small) with no noticable heating.

(Per)chlorate based glitters rarely work, the chemistry isn't right. (Almost?) all true glitters are nitrate based with large sulfur or sulfide content. It is theorised that the sulfur is slowly oxidised to sulfates by atmospheric oxygen in the glowing dross droplets which then react with the metal to produce the flashes in much the same manner as the flash phase of a strobe.

The effect is still not very well understood, it is believed that the sodium ion itself is important in gold glitters, which can be made to work with sodium chloride or bicarbonate. The fact that common salt works suggests at first thought that the chlorine in chlorate oxidisers is not responsible for ruining the glitter effect, but as salt is a cooling agent and has a very high temperature of decomposition it might not be free in the composition until the flash reaction while (per)chlorates release chlorine and its oxides at relatively low temperatures and themselves burn at higher temperatures than nitrates. Chlorine and its oxides also tend to react quickly with sulfur and sulfides, probably using up the sulfur before sulfates can form.

Winokur's paper on glitter is a great read, the glitter effect is facinating and still an active area of research. For example, Winokur tried using Selenium instead of Sulfur but got nothing but "nausating smoke" (selenides smell like garlic). He also tried other elements than Al and Mg, including Ti, Fe, and Zr, only Fe proved useful. No one has yet been able to achieve coloured glitter (other than gold/yellow) flashes.

#13 BigG

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Posted 21 March 2004 - 03:50 PM

Boric acid is ALWAYS useful when aluminium and nitrate exists ? even in small batches. It does create problems in Glitter Formulas, as some seem to work not as well in the presence of boric acid. I understand the issues that the inclusion of carbonate and acid redox can create, and a lot of manufacture steer away from carbonates when they know the formulation is going to be stored along time (Barium carbonate is still widely used). Oxalates seem to be a more favourable choice.

It must be stress that Glitters are much better understood today (and if my memory serves me right, sodium ions are not a necessity in gold formulations). Winkour work is an excellent read (A must to be honest?), but it is also quite old ? and much better view of chemistry and theory of the reaction can be obtained in Lloyd Scott Oglesby book.

As with all things, as amateurs we need to consider what works for us, and trying Alany?s favourite formula, I admit it looks better then most of the others I tried (plus cheap and easy to make!), but there are formulas (with materials which are harder to get), which produce similar effects and do not suffer from issues of hygroscopic. Search and you shell find!

#14 sasman

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 08:05 PM

I just made a small 100g batch of D1 glitter ..I burned a small pile and did not get any glitter at all just alots of golden sparks .. i have used Atomised Al from Tiranti.. Also i read of comments about being drossy?.. there was no sign of molten dross?....All chemicals were well mixed.. Do i need to make pumped or cut stars for the glitter effect?....Cheers i can post video of it burning if needed..

Rob

#15 paul

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 08:54 PM

It is VERY important that you do not use more than 8% water. if you?ve overwetten it, this could be the source of error.

I used 50? atomized Al and it worked well. The best method to mix it is by placing the chemicals into a bowl, add EXACTLY 8% of water, mix it and place it in a ziplock bag. Knead it very well and press a ball with your hands out of it.

Let it sit a hour and then use it.

Hope this helps....




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