29 replies to this topic

[fruitfulsteve]

I know this has very little to do with pyro, but do any of you proper chemists know if i would be able to extract BA/SR from the basic pyro salts i have or does it involve complex electrolisis (i can't even spell it let alone do it ) i only need to get a couple of grams for my element collection!!

[Arthur Brown]

First I would look through Ebay!

[digger]

I know this has very little to do with pyro, but do any of you proper chemists know if i would be able to extract BA/SR from the basic pyro salts i have or does it involve complex electrolisis (i can't even spell it let alone do it ) i only need to get a couple of grams for my element collection!!

electrolysis to get these should be fairly straight forward (Although I have not tried it). Simply heat the anhydrous chlorides until the melt and electroylse using graphite electrodes. The metal should be liquid at the electrolysis temperature and drop to the bottom of the vessel. Just be aware that the chlorine gas given off is toxic so it should be done in a way that you don't breathe the fumes.

Edited by digger, 07 June 2009 - 08:10 PM.

[fruitfulsteve]

I have had a look through Ebay but no real joy,their is a company in london that sell ampoules of all the elements (apart from the obviously unobtainable ones) i just thought i'd have a go at making a few myself i 'made' Hydrogen and Oxygen today and was going to try Nitrogen until i looked in the book and could only find instructions for Nitrogen dioxide.
Can i use graphite from a pencil as the electrodes? can i use Ba/Sr nitrates or do i have to turn the carbonates into chlorides? and any ideas on what sort of voltage i should use?

[Arthur Brown]

Or recover the Cl by pulling it through hot aqueous NaOH or KOH and get Chlorate as well.

Keep the cell current high enough and the electrolyte stays fused.

Next stop Bauxite to Al !

[Arthur Brown]

sorry, double post.

Edited by Arthur Brown, 07 June 2009 - 09:26 PM.

[seymour]

Keep in mind that these metals are fiendishly reactive.

Having them molten...

Scary stuff.

[digger]

Or recover the Cl by pulling it through hot aqueous NaOH or KOH and get Chlorate as well.

Keep the cell current high enough and the electrolyte stays fused.

Next stop Bauxite to Al !

Anything is possible, but if you only want a couple of grams for an element collection then a test tube scale would be fine K.I.S.S.

It is worth a try with pencil graphite.

The carbonates won't work unless you convert them to the chlorides first with HCL, I get a feeling you won't be able to use the nitrates either as they will ultimately decompose to the oxides (as the carbonates will).

[digger]

Keep in mind that these metals are fiendishly reactive.

Having them molten...

Scary stuff.

Should be ok with a couple of g under the molten chloride and allow to set before recovery.

[fruitfulsteve]

Should be ok with a couple of g under the molten chloride and allow to set before recovery.

Now i'm even more confused,surely all the chloride would turn into chlorine!and what is K.I.S.S? and would 12v be ok or would i need more?

[digger]

Now i'm even more confused,surely all the chloride would turn into chlorine!and what is K.I.S.S? and would 12v be ok or would i need more?

Nope chlorides melt before they decompose.

You could concievably drive off all the chlorine when you electrolyse the molten chloride. However as seymore has pointed out these are very reactive metals and you would not be advised to let them come into contact with air especially at 800ºC -900ºC. Just make a gram or two and let whole system cool before breaking open the tube under kerosine to recover the metal.

K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple Stupid.

12V would be more than enough.

But please do take precautions as there a few things that could go wrong.

D

[pyrotrev]

Another source of a graphite electrode might be the central rod out of a zinc/carbon battery???

Edited by pyrotrev, 08 June 2009 - 12:30 PM.

[fruitfulsteve]

Another source of a graphite electrode might be the central rod out of a zinc/carbon battery???

Can you still get zn/c batteries ?

[fruitfulsteve]

I've just started to convert the srco3 into srcl, i put 25ml distilled water and 25ml 32% hcl into a beaker and so far i've added 10g of srco3 and i'm still getting a ph of 1-2 (no real change from the hcl before i added the srco3) do i just need a lot of srco3 or should i use some sort of 'OH' i only have naoh and i don't really want to contaminate it with sodium. Also will the electrodes be far enough apart in a test tube? and will the test tube be ok if heated to 800-900c ?

[digger]

I've just started to convert the srco3 into srcl, i put 25ml distilled water and 25ml 32% hcl into a beaker and so far i've added 10g of srco3 and i'm still getting a ph of 1-2 (no real change from the hcl before i added the srco3) do i just need a lot of srco3 or should i use some sort of 'OH' i only have naoh and i don't really want to contaminate it with sodium. Also will the electrodes be far enough apart in a test tube? and will the test tube be ok if heated to 800-900c ?

You could work it out, however the easy way would be to just keep adding the carbonate until no more reacts then filter out the excess.

Yep I used those carbon electrodes from the zinc carbon batteries when I was a kid for electroplating. IIRC they were pretty soft and deteriorate pretty quickly.