12 replies to this topic

[fruitfulsteve]

Is their any reason i can't find any formulas containing kclo3/baclo3 and copper benzoate?
I have had some pretty good results using nh4clo4+copper benzoate+copper oxychloride (good blue but difficult to ignite allthough adding a little sulphur helps with this) also nh4clo4 is expensive!! kclo3 is cheap and ignites easy so i was hoping to replace the nh4clo4 with kclo3.
Is their a incompability i've missed ?

[digger]

I have tried benzoate / chlorate mixtures.

Barium chlorate plus barium benzoate is a very simple very good green. Not really tried barium chlorate with copper salts as I have not been trying to get a good turquoise as there are plenty of good perc formulas.

Pot chlorate plus copper benzoate did not produce a good blue (although I do have a mix including these that looks promising). If you do a straight replacement for the AP then you will have a stupidly fast composition akin to a very good whistle.

Barium chlorate is considered to be old news with regards to modern fireworks due to the general chlorate issues (its reported cause of many accidents).

Most of the chlorate formula were written before the Americans started playing with copper benzoate. There may be some proprietary formula, but they are unlikely to publish those.

[fruitfulsteve]

Would the oxychloride not help slow it down and add a little chlorine ?

[pyrotrev]

Would the oxychloride not help slow it down and add a little chlorine ?

Steve - I'm not sure it would slow it down as Cu oxychloride seems to work well as a catalyst accelerating the decomposition of chlorates and perchlorates. As you guessed it will help to add some Cl, though not as much as the AP would release in the form of HCl.

[pyrotrev]

Would the oxychloride not help slow it down and add a little chlorine ?

Steve - I'm not sure it would slow it down as Cu oxychloride seems to work well as a catalyst accelerating the decomposition of chlorates and perchlorates. As you guessed it will help to add some Cl, though not as much as the AP would release in the form of HCl.

[sir steve]

Is their any reason i can't find any formulas containing kclo3/baclo3 and copper benzoate?
I have had some pretty good results using nh4clo4+copper benzoate+copper oxychloride (good blue but difficult to ignite allthough adding a little sulphur helps with this) also nh4clo4 is expensive!! kclo3 is cheap and ignites easy so i was hoping to replace the nh4clo4 with kclo3.
Is their a incompability i've missed ?

The reason is cost KClO3 and black copper oxide makes wonderful blues

Steve

[digger]

KClO3 and black copper oxide makes wonderful blues

Steve

Can't say I have been overly impressed myself. I am still searching for the fabled deep blue (well one good formula that looks promising)

[fruitfulsteve]

I think i've got a pretty good blue but i'm still getting a slight orange tip to the flame kclo3 13 lactose 4 cuocl 3 parlon 2 (i've put the cu benz on the backburner) bound with acetone.
to much chlorine ?

[digger]

I had the same problem with a few blues.

Have you tried this without the parlon? Maybe replace it with dextrin. In my experience I have not needed a chlorine donor with chlorate comps.

How big are making these stars?

[fruitfulsteve]

It worked!!! no more orange, but i have lost a bit of depth so i'm gonna try dextrin plus a tiny bit of parlon see how that go's.

Their not stars as yet as i'm still in the back garden on a brick stage with them, but about 15mm cubes (cut sort of)

[sir steve]

It worked!!! no more orange, but i have lost a bit of depth so i'm gonna try dextrin plus a tiny bit of parlon see how that go's.

Their not stars as yet as i'm still in the back garden on a brick stage with them, but about 15mm cubes (cut sort of)

Yes two much chlorine me thinks, try 1 parlon /pvc : dextrin will make it go white.

Steve.

[seymour]

It's not too much chlorine that causes the problems with over use of chlorine donors, it is their flame retardant properties, and the carbon content sqewing the oxidiser/fuel ratio. The problem can be reduced by considering the chlorine donors fuels as well as chlorine donors, and if possible, using a reactive mewtal fuel to get it burning cleanly, which may not be the vbest for blues.

[Mumbles]

A few parts of metal hasn't seemed to hurt the color very much in my experience. This is 1-3 parts. There is a noticable brightening, but it's still definitely blue. If I didn't know better, I'd think they were still organically fueled actually. I used MgAl in these experiments, if it makes a difference.