633 replies to this topic

[italteen3]

After looking at the picture, I would hazard a guess at the composition being very simular if not the same as that used in a willow shell or waterfall effect shell as both of these shells leave long golden tails with a lot of "hang time"
As Daniel has stated above it will probably require some experimenting but I would start by looking at willow star formulas.
If you can give me a name for the shell in the picture I can prbably find out for you. Alternately I will print off the picture and show it to someone I know that will definately be able to give a formula for the composition used but that may only be in a couple of weeks.

Mark

 

Ok now that I know that a willow shell will give the nice dense long hang time effect I just dont the type of charcoal to use. I have heard of some willow formulas calling for a Pine Charcoal which I have read gives reddish orange sparks. So does this not mean that a willow shell uses willow charcoal for the effect but has its name because it looks like a nice droopy willow tree?

Main question is now if I want a golden dense long hanging shell what type of charcoal to use?

Castillareno I think you are looking for the same formula as me. I think that you just need a different type of charcoal as you want orange and I want a gold.

[dfk]

That's basically a brocade shell.
when I first saw these in a commercial show I was in awe and totally inspired. I had to recreate the effect. When they are shot in shows they are huge! the ones ive seen had to be coming from at least a 6" shell and are always surrounded by some diadems and willows that just fill the sky.

Definitions get tricky when it comes to pyro so heres my two and a half cents
diadems, willows and brocades are all a similar effect but have a few distinguishing characteristics. From what I've gathered these are all defined basically as firedust chrysanthemums. All willow comps I have seen make use of charcoal or lampblack to provide the spark tail; diadems are just large willows. Brocades distinguish themselves from willows in that they utilize Ferro-Ti in addition to charcoal which gives them a dense weightless almost sparkly, cloud of gold sparks. In the construction of the shell, willows use few, large stars with a relatively low oxidizer percent. brocades use an ungodly low percent oxidizer with close to equal percents of charcoal and Fe-Ti for sparks. These comps Burn SLOW leaving a soft shower of sparks. The stars must stay small for this reason other wise that shower might literally rain down on you. So Fe-Ti sparks are brighter and livelier than those of C which looks like what we have in your picture.
Ya its late and I and hard to think over here so enough blabbing and on to the good stuff. Regardles of what you have in your picture, these 'brocade' formulas are sure to be fun and should be pretty to boot.
heres my donation for the month
This is a comp I got off rec.pyro (sorry no references).
Listed as "golden kumora"
Potassium Nitrate 30.3
Charcoal 30.3
Sulfur 6.1
Fe-Ti(40-100m) 27.25
Dext rin 6.1

mmmm sounds good never tried it.

This ones listed in my book of random s**t and notes.
(Hardt)

Potassium Nitrate 29
Pine Charcoal 34
Sulfur 6
Fe-Ti 25
SGRS 6

mm mm mm sounds good enough to eat.
have fun all, and let me know how it goes.

Marcus

[Creepin_pyro]

Marcus, what is SGRS ?

SGRS

[castillareno]

Ahhhhhh!!!!!!!

Here, in Spain, we never use(never used) this product.

I neither know it nor have worked with it(him). Takeo Shimizu always recommends it.

It is used dextrin yellow as cementing agent.

[castillareno]

Where I can find the formula of the composition BROCADE SHELL , which describes Marcus?

[italteen3]

Marcus, what is SGRS ?

This formulas by golden KAMURO contains also lampblack?     
Look this formula. The *KAMURO BRUNCH?, of Valencia (SPAIN)

Meal powder (75-15-10 of Ball mill, willow tree charcoal or Grapevine)......500 gramos
       
Charcoal pine ..100 gramos                             

Lampblack....... 50 gramos             

Dextrin..........25  gramos         

Titanium FINE....12,50 Gramos

Titanium COARSE..18,75 Gramos
-----------------------------------------------------------

*Dampen with water and alcohol=  50:50.

 

SGRS is I believe Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch, just a another binder which I believe is said to be superior to Dextrin in most comps.

So is the Fe-Ti necessary for a gold or just makes it brighter?

[miniskinny]

Any simple Titanium (10-60 mesh) star formulas you guys know of?

[BigG]

SGRS is I believe Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch, just a another binder which I believe is said to be superior to Dextrin in most comps. 

So is the Fe-Ti necessary for a gold or just makes it brighter?

 

Well, Fe-Ti is one of those powders that give you red-white spraks. Depending on the % of Ti, it will burn either "cold" red with some white spraks, or "bright red" leaning toward the white (it never really burn white). It's a good gold producer.

[dfk]

Where I can find the formula of the composition BROCADE SHELL

I listed two 'brocade' comps in my last post

The comp you posted looks interesting. You can probably substitute the Ti in your comp with Fe-Ti to make it a golden star and get your 'brocade' effect. Your comp also has lampblack and Charcoal which would probably give different dimensions of gold.

ITALTEEN;

Maybe I can answer a few of your questions and clear a few things up for you.

You can use ANY charcoal for a willow star. The roll it plays in a willow comp is not restricted by any type of necessary characteristic as in black powder for the preferred 'speed' of the C. All charcoals are different, some charcoals burn quick and bright some slow and soft, maybe red (I think that depends on who's watching), its left up to experimentation and your taste as to what's best for you.
Willow shells are named for the look, the fact you can use willow charcoal is coincidence.
Concering your last question, the inclusion FeTi is what makes a 'brocade' just that and not a 'willow'. Charcoal chrysanthemums are a nice effect and an easy one. These comps are a good star to start off with. Give it a go with what chacoal you have on hand. Then if its not the effect you were looking for, invest in your more exotic chems and go from there.

Any simple Titanium (10-60 mesh) star formulas you guys know of?

Add it to most any comp around 8-15% for a white tail, look in the PFP for BP-TI comets, substitute Fe-Ti for your Ti or scroll up and look at the one castillareno just posted.

EDIT: % Is more like 3-8. High percents like 15 are only seen in salutes.

Edited by dfk, 27 August 2004 - 01:43 AM.

[dfk]

Why do you NEED lampblack in your formula?

In my opinion, the charcoal and lampblack effect is so similar looking I don't pay the extra money for lampblack.

Ti burns white, Fe-Ti burns gold, substitute both fine and course you could also try a mixed mesh aloy to simplify things.

The comp you posted looks like a fast burner and suited better for a comet effect.
As soon as I get a chance ill try it out but Right now Im still obsessed and working with crackle. ( I just got my BiO3 in)

Here it is simplified just because I took the time to do it.

pats by weight
Meal 74.2
C 14.2
LB 6.1
dex 3.4
TI(added and mixed substitute) 4.3
102.2



Try one I posted, Im pretty sure its what your looking for and that you will be happy.

Edited by dfk, 28 August 2004 - 11:51 PM.

[neo]

just wondering... it says that I shuld use 25% alcohol as a solvent. can i use ethanol? or just normal liqueur??

[Phoenix]

Yes, I use meths as my 25% (or whatever) alcohol. Trouble is, it gives you a real bad headache. I reckon that's your brain expressing its feelings about methanol. Best to do it outside.

[Rhodri]

I find that a cheap bottle of Vodka does the trick....hic.......

To be serious for a moment a cheap bottle of Vodka will be around 35% C2H5OH and works wonders in comps. that use Red Gum / Mg etc. that don't function too well in aqueous phase.

[The_Djinn]

How does it go Rhodri.... 2 parts for the formula... 5 parts for you

[paul]

The vodka Idea is too good.... Damn. And I used this bad smelling methylated spirit all the time.

0,7l vodka costs about 3?. Ms is cheaper, but I don?t need it too often, so vodka would be fine.

Thanks for that "trick"