633 replies to this topic

[Frozentech]

I have a formula here im going to try out, has anyone tried it? This is it:

Deep blue AP star

Ammonium perchlorate 48
Hexamine 14
Copper oxychloride 12
Copper sulfate 6
Dextrin 6
Gum arabic 1

It is supposed to be a lovely deep blue colour and burn fast, i have to buy two of the chemicals first but i have found them so thats ok. I will give it a wirl and post the results with pics/vids here.

Just the thought of deep blue star shells is making me drool

Just the thought of Ammonium Perchlorate and Copper Sulfate sort of worries me. I think that if possible I'd want to use something with Copper Carbonate instead ( or in addition ) just to make sure the pH stays on the basic side. Keep a close eye on it, and work with it outdoors if you can. There have been cases of spontaneous combustion with ammonium perc and copper compounds. ( that said, I have made nice purples with Ammonium Perchlorate / Copper (II) Oxide / Strontium Carbonate ) The comp you list is Winokur's Hexamine Blue, and if it's good enough enough for him, you should be OK, just be careful, no brass screens, no adding any metals to the comp, and keep an eye on it till dried well. I'd shoot it pretty quick after making it too.

Good luck, and Stay Green !

re.pyro article on Hexamine Blue:
1974 PGI article by Don Haarman re: Unconventional Comps

rec.pyro article on Ammonium Perc/ Copper spontaneous combustion:
Ammonium Perc / Copper #1

[karlfoxman]

Oh yes of course i will be careful, the use of copper sulfate had me baffled as its never really used in pyrotechnics anymore and here we see it in what seem a fairly recent formula. Thanks for the links i have not had a chance to read them but will do at the weekend, these blue stars formulas are really very interesting, you have very little margin for error and that makes it much more fun to learn. Your burning temp has to be spot on or you will loose the lovely blue

Well i will post the results when i have the chemicals and a bit more knowlage on this particular formula.

Thanks

[karlfoxman]

Hey guys,

Got some videos of Ammonium perchlorate blues lads, please check them out and let me know wjat you think. I am only interested in colour saturation and brightness at the moment. I will test more from a star gun and post them, i am going to use our new 3ccd camera to get a better idea of the true colours.

Select 'ammonium perchlorate blues' folder then select the downloads

Thanks

[Yugen-biki]

Interesting karlfoxman.

I have tried the Lancatser blue, and a similar composition with strontium carbonate instead av copper carbonate, which gave a very nice red. Ammonium perchlorate sure gives good colors, but there are a few things that you other readers out there should think about.

1. Perchlorate, chlorate and nitrate gives good colors as well.
2. AP will limit the number of primers you can use. (incompability with KNO3 and KClO3).
3. AP will also limit the kind of burst/lift charges you can use (incompability with KNO3 and KClO3).
4. It may be expensive and/or hard to come by.

There is a magical aura around AP because it produces good colors. But taken the four points above in to account it may be to much of a troubble to get there. And I would like to point out No 1. again. AP is NOT needed to get good colors.
There is one area though where AP king, and that is storbe.

[sasman]

Karl very intresting videos.. is the color accurate?..is it possible to video a normal non AP blue Potassium perchlorate based? formula to use as a reference?.

I have noticed you cant really do a static burn test.. it has be in the air to get an accurate guide..the more comp you burn in your static pile the worse the colour reproduction on your camera(well it is on my camera.. i have 2 3 ccd Sony cameras and a Cannon Ixus 750 still camera).. bigger piles burn brighter and wash out the color....I noticed when i burnt smaller test piles it didnt over expose on my cameras and color looked better..

Also when i did a small test of Ruby red & Emerald green i was very dissapionted with the color ..so i burned some green and red stars i got out of a Cat 3 mine...i used these as a reference.. and even though i knew they were a good colour when fired from the mine.. on the ground they burnt with a washed out colour.. proving that you must fire in the Air...

But just for arguments sake.. if those colors were true.. then i would be dissapointed in the color saturation..i have had similiar looking blues from Potassium perchlorate..The blue i am looking for is a nice Dark blue..the blues in the video looked just like my Potassium perchlorate blues(tested on the ground like yours) which for my personal taste is to bright..

Were you happy with the colours?.. were they much better than KP blues? or even Potassium Chlorate blues? you may have tried?..
I am very serious about these nice blues...i got all the chems to attempt to make some (including a 25 kg sack of Hexamine? which dont have many uses other than blues?)..

Looking forward to seeing some of those formulas in the air?..

Keep up the good work...

[RegimentalPyro]

Very interesting.



Of the four I'd say the Pihko#1 is the best so far, but this could be down to the sample frames I've chosen.

For more accurate view of the results we could try the following.

Place a piece of white card a fixed distance from the star/comp.
Point the camera at the card rather than the star. That way we measure the radiated light and we cut down the incandesence washout.
We can post process the video - basically average the frames together to give an still-image of the colour. We use this in the side-by-side comaprison.

Edited by RegimentalPyro, 08 March 2006 - 09:15 AM.

[JamesH]

I also agree that the Pihko AP#1 seems to be the best so far in regards to colour saturation.
It would be interesting to see how copper oxychloride and copper benzoate comps perform in comparison to the above.

Edited by JamesH, 08 March 2006 - 10:17 AM.

[karlfoxman]

Thanks for grouping the stills Regi, i was trying to get Vegas to do it but the i have the manual on my desktop at home. I thought Bruce Snowden was good, but yeah it looks as if Phiko AP#1 is the better one. I will make a batch of Conkling KP and have a bench mark as this is one of the best KP blues out there.

I am trying to get hold of some Copper Oxychloride to try out some using that, Copper benzoate i have not looked for yet but i will phone around and ask. The colours are fairly accurate if you look at like the light on the surrounding areas. I will do the card static test and film them using dads new 3ccd sony. I think they are slightly better than KP blues, as for KCLO3 blues i dont know because i have never tried those.

Thanks for your replies and look forward to making more of them, if anyone has anymore sugestions then please say so in this thread.

[Creepin_pyro]

It's hard to get a good idea of the colour by burning a large amount of blue comp on the ground - burning a thin train or a small lance should give you a better idea. Regi's white card method will work well, but you still don't want to burn a large amount at once. For static blue ground effects, a much higher percentage of Copper Salt will give the best colour saturation, like in the following lance comp:

Ammonium Perchlorate: 70
Copper Oxide: 30
Red Gum: 15

These grabs are taken from a small lance of the above composition so you can see what I mean...



Looking forward to seeing those comps in the air - I'm sure they'll look much more impressive : )

I too am interested in doing some tests with the Oxichloride and Benzoate blues - haven't found any Oxichloride yet, but I do have a little Benzoate - just need to get round to some experimentation.

Good luck

[fishy1]

It's hard to get a good idea of the colour by burning a large amount of blue comp on the ground - burning a thin train or a small lance should give you a better idea. Regi's white card method will work well, but you still don't want to burn a large amount at once. For static blue ground effects, a much higher percentage of Copper Salt will give the best colour saturation, like in the following lance comp:

Ammonium Perchlorate: 70
Copper Oxide: 30
Red Gum: 15

These grabs are taken from a small lance of the above composition so you can see what I mean...



Looking forward to seeing those comps in the air - I'm sure they'll look much more impressive : )

I too am interested in doing some tests with the Oxichloride and Benzoate blues - haven't found any Oxichloride yet, but I do have a little Benzoate - just need to get round to some experimentation.

Good luck

that is a lovely blue....

[karlfoxman]

Fishy1: Yes its a lovely blue, but please please have more input than just 'that is a lovely blue.....' some body has to pay for the space this takes and the more valuable information we have the better.

Are those blues really that deep colour, they look fantastic! Do you think that simple formula would be ok as a star, the problem i guess is getting the thing lit!

I will make these comps and fire them from a star gun or something in the next two weeks, if anyone has any tips for modifying some of the blues i made please post. Like Creeping said maybe a higher ammount of copper salt will give bluer blues.

Im starting to get the blues!!!!

[sizzle]

Fishy1: Yes its a lovely blue, but please please have more input than just 'that is a lovely blue.....' some body has to pay for the space this takes and the more valuable information we have the better.

Thankyou, finally someone else sees my point. That is a nice blue, seems similar in shade to Phiko KP #1 I tried just before Christmas. Very furious burner:

Potassium Perchlorate 63
Black Copper Oxide 13
Parlon 14
Red Gum 10

Edited by sizzle, 08 March 2006 - 07:28 PM.

[Jerronimo]

I never tried NH4ClO4 blues, but I have a chlorate formula I created myself that works rather well:
A cheap formula, no expensive resins are needed.

60 KClO3
20 Lactose
10 CuO
10 Pergut

Bind with acetone
This one has good burnrate,coloursaturation and takes/holds fire very well, only a light prime is sufficient.

Edited by Jerronimo, 08 March 2006 - 08:17 PM.

[matthew]

Hello.

I don't understand what are those measurments are for example when you have copper oxide-30. Can you tell me what are those measurments are for example grams.

Thanks.

[sizzle]

Hello.

I don't understand what are those measurments are for example when you have copper oxide-30. Can you tell me what are those measurments are for example grams.

Thanks.

All measurements in pyrotechnics are in weight not volume unless otherwise stated.

Edited by sizzle, 07 April 2006 - 10:14 AM.