12 replies to this topic

[pyrobrainiac]

i currently have:
potassium nitrate
potassium permaganate
sulphur
willow charcoal powder
dextrin
copper sulphate
red iron oxide
aluminium power
german dark aluminium powder
bentonite clay
sugar
and visco fuse

was wondering if anybody could recomend some more chems i should get.
i want to start making stars and much more.
any suggestions would be appriciated. thanks

[pyrotrev]

Potassium perchlorate, some barium, sodium and strontium salts and parlon/pvc would have to be high on the list I would think. Why don't you look through the star formulas section and see which mixes take your fancy and get the chems for those in first?

[seymour]

Throw out the Permanginate, or use it for something other than pyro. I'm sure you have used it and kept all your fingers, but all are not so lucky.

As Pyrotrev said, Potassium perc is desired, as are Strontium and barium salts, which I'll expand on.

The common Barium salts used in fireworks are the nitrate, chlorate, carbonate and the sulfate. The chlorate does make superb greens, but it is also the most sensitive oxidiser used in fireworks. I do not recommend that you get that one yet, and besides, getting it is not easy. The carbonate only makes good greens with Ammonium perchlorate, but it is used in lovely white glitters, among other things. The sulfate can be used in some green formulas, as well as in Ammonium perchlorate based white strobes, and firefly stars. The nitrate is by far the most useful, and is used in most green compositions, as well as strobes (with Magnalium and sulfur), as well as white stars and silver glitters.

The two most common Strontium salts are the Carbonate and the Nitrate, though the sulfate and the oxalate come in at distant third and fourth. Both the carbonate and the nitrate make very nice reds in the right formula. If you live in a damp climate then the nitrate could cause problems with moisture, though the pure material is us not too bad in this regard.

For Barium, I do not hesitate to recommend the nitrate as the first choice. For Strontium, I personally prefer the carbonate, but the nitrate is also perfectly good.

I'd like to add Saran resin to Pyrotrev's chlorine donor recommendations. Make it Parlon or PVC or Saran. You need a chemical that releases chlorine in flames to get most colours, and these are excellent sources.

Additionally, you will be wanting Magnalium for coloured stars and strobes, as well as primes, and maybe for spark effects and crackle.

For blue you will also be wanting a copper donor. Because of it's solbility and water content, Copper sulfate can be poor at this, and even dangerous. While there are many different copper sources used (Copper (II) oxide, Copper oxychloride, Copper carbonate, Copper powder (metal), and copper benzoate being a few, Copper (II) oxide is probably the most available, it should be the cheapest, and is the most popular one for use. I suggest you get it.

For coloured stars you will want an organic fuel. The truth is you can use sulfur (not organic, but still a low temp fuel in stars) and dextrin for this, but you will probably be frustrated at all the formulas with other fuels which you do not have. There are many, including Rosin, Shellac, Red gum and stearic acid, but in modern pyrotechnics red gum is used most widely and frequently. I suggest that.

You might also want a different charcoal for rockets, fountains and stars. While willow works fine for these things, you can easily get awayy with a cheaper charcoal (which might perform better in these things) and save your willow coal for black powder. This is not necessary though.

If you want silver sparks in salutes or beautiful Brocade/Kamuro stars, then you need Titanium. There are many sizes, with finer powder giving shorter lived sparks, and the bigger sizes giving sparks that each look like a small star. This is also unbeatable in silver fountains.

Zinc dust is nice to have, and easy to get, but not a priority.

If you want crackle, you will need Magnalium and either Lead tetraoxide (red lead) or a suitable Bismuth salt (trioxide, subnitrate or subcarbonate), with the bismuth salts being more expensive, but less toxic.

For crackle (and also for compositions containing Ammonium perchlorate (lovely stuff, but hard to get and expensive) and Magnesium or Magnalium (such as coloured strobes), you will want Nitrocellulose to bind with. Unfortunately homemade stuff is not stablised so will deteriorate over time. Ping pong balls dissolved in a suitable solvent are often used, but not ideal. Smokeless powder is very good, and despite it's nitroglycerin content it is actually very stable - thanks to stablising chemicals added. I would definitely prefer to use this instead of homemade NC.


I think I have run out now...

[jayden]

I have got the same "problem" as pyrobraniac.
I have got a collection of chemicals but want to expand and make some colours and some different stars.
I have made tiger tail, glitter etc but want to try something new.
These are the chemicals that I have:

• Magnesium
• KNO3
• Willow Charcoal
• Other charcoal
• Sulfur
• Red Iron oxide
• Sodium Bicarbonate
• Sugar
• Dextrin

and I have ordered some chems that should be coming soon:

• antinomy trisulfide
• barium carbonate
• aluminium powder (200 mesh)
• magnalium powder
• titanium
• red gum
• parlon
• strontium carbonate
• sodium benzoate
• copper oxide (black)
• bentonite clay
• and some paper hemis and some plastic containers

[seymour]

If you want green you are not going to have any success with Barium carbonate and KP. It will work with Ammonium perchlorate, or you can make the nitrate by adding the carbonate to nitric acid.

It is still good for glitters.

[jayden]

If you want green you are not going to have any success with Barium carbonate and KP. It will work with Ammonium perchlorate, or you can make the nitrate by adding the carbonate to nitric acid.

It is still good for glitters.

I have done some research and found one green (metallic fueled) that you can do containing barium carbonate (without ammonium perchlorate or barium nitrate in the formula) on 'PFP Database.'
This is the formula:

Barium Carbonate...........19.5
Red gum..........................4
Potassium Perchlorate....30
Magnalium (100mesh).....30
Dextrin.............................4
Parlon..............................12
Boric Acid.........................0.5

Other than that, there is nothing else that I have found that doesn't need ammonium perchlorate or barium nitrate in the greens.

Has anyone tried this formula? Is it effective?

Thanks, Jayden.

[pyrobrainiac]

thanks for all the replys i have found a supplier that sells most of them so will be making a list tonight of what i'm geting. i'm going to try and get a decent camera as well to take good videos of what i make and will upload them.

[pyrobrainiac]

do these sound like some good additions? don't have much money at the minute so can only get these to add to the collection if you's think they are a good choice and at the right price.

.....................................................................
.
Potassium Perchlorate. Per kilo =£18.50                  150 mesh .
Barium Carbonate per 200 grams = £4.50                   250 mesh .
Strontium Carbonate per 200 grams = £4.50                250 mesh .
Parlon per 500 grams =£11.00 100 mesh .
Red Gum per 500 grams =£ 11.00                           200 mesh .
.
.....................................................................

[seymour]

I'm not sure what the current prices of red gum or parlon are, but £22 per kilo seems like too much.

The strontium looks like a good deal, but I get Barium carbonate at NZ $2.50 per kilo, (about twenty pence per 200g), so that looks a bit expensive to me.

KP looks like a fairly standard price for small orders.

[jayden]

do these sound like some good additions? don't have much money at the minute so can only get these to add to the collection if you's think they are a good choice and at the right price.

.....................................................................
.
Potassium Perchlorate. Per kilo =£18.50 150 mesh .
Barium Carbonate per 200 grams = £4.50 250 mesh .
Strontium Carbonate per 200 grams = £4.50 250 mesh .
Parlon per 500 grams =£11.00 100 mesh .
Red Gum per 500 grams =£ 11.00 200 mesh .
.
.....................................................................

If you want to get blues and violets, I suggest you get copper oxide (or copper carbonate) as well. Just a suggestion.
Note: You cannot get green with the chemicals you have listed.
You will need, as an addition to barium carbonate, either magnalium (in green metallic fuelled stars) or barium chlorate (in green organically fuelled stars) along with an oxidiser and binders which you already have.
Maybe you can use aluminium instead of magnalium in the formula that I have posted above, but that may not burn hot enough to bring out the colour.

I have not yet got potassium perchlorate, but these are the prices that I got for other chemicals:
-Barium carbonate - $6 (2.95 pounds) for half a kilo
-Strontium carbonate - $7 (3.44 pounds) for 100g
-Parlon - $9 (4.43 pounds) for 250g
-Red Gum - $5 (2.46 pounds) for 250g

Red Gum would be cheaper for me because I live in Australia which is where it mostly comes from.
Thanks, Jayden.

Edited by jayden, 20 July 2009 - 03:19 AM.

[StephF]

I'd just like to step in for a moment and do my Nanny bit and warn people that many of the strontium & barium salts are highly toxic.

Using respiratory protection , gloves and good housekeeping should go a long way to allow you to continue making your pyros in a safe fashion.

[digger]

I'd just like to step in for a moment and do my Nanny bit and warn people that many of the strontium & barium salts are highly toxic.

Using respiratory protection , gloves and good housekeeping should go a long way to allow you to continue making your pyros in a safe fashion.

Fair enough, it is wise to use good quality respiratory protection (not naff B&Q dust masks) when working with any finely powdered pyro comps (I use a Sundstrom SR200!).

However Strontium salts are not particularly toxic in fact it is important to have small amounts of it in our diet! Now I am not suggesting having a spoonful of strontium chloride.

Not all Barium salts are toxic either, Barium Sulphate is so insoluble the body can't absorb it. Hey it is even used in medicine for x-rays of the bowl etc.

I think what I am saying here is one should check the MSDS of any chemical that they are using to get the facts about the risks and then take proper precautions during its use. There are great many unpleasant chemicals used in pyro as we are all aware, some of which have rather nasty cumulative effects.

[icarus]

to get rid of the permanganate usefully it can be used with silicon sealant to make a good flexible fuse