16 replies to this topic

[Potassium chlorate]

Does anyone have any formulas for blue with copper carbonate and red with lithium carbonate? Both Bengal fire and star formulas are of interest. I think copper carbonate is usually used with AP and lactose but what are the ratios?

I also know that lithium carbonate is a bit exotic, but I got plenty of it for a very good price, so I'd be very pleased if someone would provide me with some good formulas.

Edited by Pyroswede, 09 August 2009 - 10:02 AM.

[MDH]

Does anyone have any formulas for blue with copper carbonate and red with lithium carbonate? Both Bengal fire and star formulas are of interest. I think copper carbonate is usually used with AP and lactose but what are the ratios?

I also know that lithium carbonate is a bit exotic, but I got plenty of it for a very good price, so I'd be very pleased if someone would provide me with some good formulas.

Typically the amount of oxidizer is high with ammonium perchlorate compositions. Try testing out small amounts of ratio variants (Such as 7/1/1/1 or 6/2/1/1) and see which color appears best for you before fine tuning the composition.

Alternatively the PFP is always available.

Edited by MDH, 10 August 2009 - 07:27 PM.

[Potassium chlorate]

Hm, I found a couple of compositions myself now that I already had. This one looks good and uses potassium perchlorate instead:

Shimizu; Blue organically fueled stars I:

Potassium perchlorate 60.8

Copper Carbonate 12.3

Parlon 13.1

Red gum 9

Dextrin 9.8

Cut or rolled.

[MDH]

That should work well, though I imagine a lower temperature chlorine donor could be used in place of Parlon. If you have Lactose, I would recommend a composition composed of saran, lactose, copper carbonate and ammonium perchlorate instead. It's interesting to note that the dextrin is so high in Shimizu's composition - probably also to cool in down.

[fruitfulsteve]

Theirs some info on PYROGUIDE about lithium carbonate under chemicals,but no formulas.
PASSFIRE has quite a few copper carbonate comps,but nothing on lithium carbonate,apparently strontium is cheaper and better!!!!

[Potassium chlorate]

That should work well, though I imagine a lower temperature chlorine donor could be used in place of Parlon. If you have Lactose, I would recommend a composition composed of saran, lactose, copper carbonate and ammonium perchlorate instead. It's interesting to note that the dextrin is so high in Shimizu's composition - probably also to cool in down.

I have lactose and saran as well. The thing is that ammonium perchlorate is almost twice as expensive as potassium perchlorate, even though I can consider myself lucky that both are legal and relatively easy to get here. But I'm not that pennywise that I can't try NH₄ClO_4, of course.

[Potassium chlorate]

OK, it turns out that a certain pyro supplier has sold me barium nitrate instead of strontium nitrate, so at the moment lithium carbonate is my only red colour donor.

Does anyone know if I can substitute lithium carbonate for strontium carbonate in this and at least get an acceptable red colour?

Red fire composition #2
Source: "Mengen en Roeren"[6], page 223.
Comments:
Preparation:

Strontium carbonate...............................16
Potassium chlorate................................72
Powdered shellac..................................12

[a_bab]

I guess you won't find a good red lithium carbonate formula for the simple reason that lithium salts are expensive and give poor color saturation in the pyrotechnic flame (alcohol is another story).

I'd start with the formula you just posted, and replace 1:1 the carbonate. Generally speaking, in the case of carbonates a hot flame is needed, but with potassium chlorate that is not always true.

[Potassium chlorate]

I guess you won't find a good red lithium carbonate formula for the simple reason that lithium salts are expensive and give poor color saturation in the pyrotechnic flame (alcohol is another story).

I'd start with the formula you just posted, and replace 1:1 the carbonate. Generally speaking, in the case of carbonates a hot flame is needed, but with potassium chlorate that is not always true.

Ironically enough I got several kilos of lithium carbonate very cheap from a guy here in Sweden, who quit making fireworks.

But I'll try it. It's better than nothing.

[Potassium chlorate]

Update: I made a Bengal fire with the abovementioned composition but with lithium carbonate instead of strontium carbonate.

When I ignited small, still alcohol moist, lumps of it, it turned out to be salmon/pink and not deep red. I think that is the colour the dried Bengal will have as well.

[seymour]

I've got some lithium carbonate too, and my experiments with Ammonium perchlorate show no promise at all.

While it is probably possible to get a colour from it in firework type pyrotechnics (you have shown that), it is apparently quite different from other colouring agents. From memory, all halogens should be avoided, so instead of adding a chlorine donor, don't even think about it! I believe there are also important issues with temperature and oxygen ballance.

Good luck.

[Potassium chlorate]

I tested the Bengal. A total disappointment. It was hard to ignite, and when it finally caught fire, it burnt irregularly with a very light pinkish flame.

Though I think lithium carbonate might work well with methanol in liquid fires, though that's not really pyrotechnic in the usual meaning of the word.

[digger]

I tested the Bengal. A total disappointment. It was hard to ignite, and when it finally caught fire, it burnt irregularly with a very light pinkish flame.

Yep that was my experience with it (well the pinkish flame bit). I did not try to hard with it though after a little initial testing. I still have pretty much all of the stuff that I originally bought still left and that was three years ago.

Edited by digger, 19 August 2009 - 10:14 PM.

[Potassium chlorate]

However, the guy I bought it from actually managed to fix pink stars from it, but I wonder if he didn't made lithium chloride of it first.

[digger]

I just used the Veline red formula with the strontium carbonate subbed with the lithium carbonate. It lit fine, and could be used as stars without problem. I just expected it to be more red than pink.