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#31 Vic

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 10:22 PM

Dear Friends:

In order not to be lynched by you, because of my criticism, here my Brazilian Blue:

organic:

64 % Potassium Perchlorate
14 % PVC
10 % Black Copper Oxide
8 % Phenole Formaldehyde Resin
4 % Arabic Gum

Magnalium Version;

62 % Potassium Perchlorate
14 % PVC
10 % Black Copper Oxide
6 % Phenole Formaldehye Resin
4 % Magnalium
4 % Arabic Gum

# CuO is quite expensive, so I never use more than 10 %.
# Phenolic Resin is burnt to CO2 and water, the other compounds to CO and water, this is important.
# the ratio between Cu and Cl added (in the form of PVC) is always 1 : 1,8 , also important.

Greetings from Brazil:

ToivoPosted Image


Just what is Phenol formaldehyde resin, all I can find out is that it was used for making Bakelite and a glue for plywood, is it like epoxy resin.
Freud. Artists, in this view, are people who may avoid neurosis and perversion by sublimating their impulses in their work.

#32 digger

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 09:45 AM

Just what is Phenol formaldehyde resin, all I can find out is that it was used for making Bakelite and a glue for plywood, is it like epoxy resin.


I guess Resorcinol Resin would do the same job as it is very similar chemically. (yes they are two part resins)
Phew that was close.

#33 Mumbles

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 09:27 PM

Phenol/formaldehyde resins are popular in China as a binder, but it appears the gum arabic is the binder here. There are some resins on the market that can somewhat replicate the stuff from china. There really isn't much good information about what the resin really is, or what kind of products available contain it or could replicate it. Other sorts of organic fuels, like red gum or shellac might be able to replace it.

For what it is worth, the formula lacking magnalium is very similar to Shimizu Blue #70 using the resin instead of red gum, which is by far one of the nicest I've seen.

Potassium Perchlorate 63.8
Parlon 13.8
Copper(II) Oxide, black 12.9
Red Gum 9.5
Dextrin 4
Total: 104

The original might have used CuCO3 instead, but CuO produces just as nice of flame. It might not have been this one, but there was a commonly propagated formula that had the wrong colorant in it.

#34 drtoivowillmann

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 12:59 PM

Dear Friends:

Phnelol-Formaldehyde Resin is a synthetic substitute (generally cheaper) for Red Gum.
It is also called Phenyl-Novolac and really is raw Bakelite without filler (saw dust filler).
You are right, there is also Resorcin-Novolac, a little bit more expensive.

Greetings:

Toivo

#35 Vic

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 08:39 PM

Phenol/formaldehyde resins are popular in China as a binder, but it appears the gum arabic is the binder here.


If the Gum Arabic is the binder here, what part does the Phenol formaldehyde resin play in the mix?
Freud. Artists, in this view, are people who may avoid neurosis and perversion by sublimating their impulses in their work.

#36 Mumbles

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 03:21 AM

Fuel. I could be both binder and fuel, but I don't recall off hand if it is water or alcohol based (maybe both).

#37 pyrotrev

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 01:24 PM

Fuel. I could be both binder and fuel, but I don't recall off hand if it is water or alcohol based (maybe both).

Phenolic resins make good fuels, give a high burn rate, and are normally soluble in alcohol/acetone. I guess the Chinese use them in preference to red gum because of cost, although not easy to source in hobbyist quantities I'm told they're dirt cheap if you buy a ton or so!
Trying to do something very beautiful but very dangerous very safely....

#38 cooperman435

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 07:15 PM

If Im correct that Phenol/formaldehyde resin is a white powder then I suspect I have some which Ive never used and if anyone wants some to experiment with for me then please feel free to show yourselves.

I use the Resorcinol Resin loads and have only found issues with Mg so far

#39 Vic

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 10:38 PM

Just a couple of questions.

Is this type of resin used for ease of manufacture of large comets and not so much for the fuel content.

Aren't these types of resins messy on your tooling.

I have some Cascamite wood glue which is water activated, is it worth trying.
Freud. Artists, in this view, are people who may avoid neurosis and perversion by sublimating their impulses in their work.

#40 pyrotrev

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 02:57 PM

Just a couple of questions.

Is this type of resin used for ease of manufacture of large comets and not so much for the fuel content.

Aren't these types of resins messy on your tooling.

I have some Cascamite wood glue which is water activated, is it worth trying.


Yes, they are convienient for large star production, but can also be good fuels: try a 25 (solids): 75 mix with KClO4 to make a good rocket fuel for instance (addd 5% Ti for sparks :) ).
Suprisingly I've not found resorcinol resins too messy on tooling in the concentrations you use them for binders: and they're easy to clean too, a lot better than red gum for instance.
Trying to do something very beautiful but very dangerous very safely....

#41 Mumbles

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 02:50 AM

I started a new thread on resin bound comets, so as to not take this thread even farther off topic.




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