9 replies to this topic

[icarus]

if a person involved in private research had only zinc powder and sulphur mixed them together in the correct proportions then proceeded to make a zinc/ sulphur experimental rocket motor would this be subject to mser limitations?.
he has no oxidising agent . is the mix an explosive subject to mser ??? if so regardless of the mass made he has committed a serious criminal offence .MSER gives a 100g exemption to produce small quantities of propellent in a research environment, but no legal authority to incorporate this into any pyrotechnic device or manufacture any device whatsoever using the exempt sample . Although zinc sulphur mixes will build up sufficient pressure to split the wall of a sealed cardboard tube if this defines it as a propellant then vinegar and bicarbonated soda can give off sufficient c02 to split a metal can so should also be covered by MSER
Is there a possibility of legal low impulse rocket motor research using this fuel mix in the uk ???

[portfire]

I'm pretty sure this would sill fall under MSER mate (and I'm sure you will get a better anwser) It's when you put the comp in a tube, it then becomes a explosive device, which=CAD

[pyrotechnist]

That would just make zinc sulphide which isn't illegal to what I know off, though not sure what sticking it in a tube would be classed as. I know some put them in a test tube which you could class as a sort of confinement much like a tube but our law is stupid so who knows, dam not even the HSE know.

[icarus]

zinc/sulphur rocket motors would enable us to pursue true amateur rocket construction. It is a low impulse propellant ,we would be able to research solid fuelled rocket motor design and build rocket motors . I would suggest that 50 metres from nearest habitable building would be a reasonable constraint on their amateur production .Once tested the motors could be used by amateur rocket clubs . or flown in rocket engined model drag racing cars

[digger]

I am afraid it is still a pyrotechnic composition and hence falls under MSER.

[pyrotechnist]

If it wasn't for our blatant participation in the corrupt EU we wouldn't have as many laws imposed upon us with pyro, anyone who has pyro has heritage and joins the EU are ruining their chances. Plus the fact of our marxist government. Ok rant over, I guess if you dont confine it to a tube it is just a chemical reaction yet if put into a tube they class it as a whole different beast.

[digger]

MSER is a UK law, nothing to do with the EU in any way.

You have the Labour government to thank for MSER and the abolishion of the small factory licence.

[pyrotechnist]

I heard the EU have input on parts of it. But yep I agree torries then labour smashed our industry and created ridiculous laws. It worries me which one of the 3 idiots will get in next week , btw check ur pm digger.

Edited by pyrotechnist, 30 April 2010 - 11:46 PM.

[Rjb641]

Icarus poses some pretty interesting questions... the UK laws are extremely confusing and ill defined.

I for one would have difficulty defining what constitutes either 'practical use' or 'experimentation'. I guess that fundamentally, if 'practical use' were to include manufacture of a rocket motors, then Zinc Sulphur would fall into the non-legal category. The inclusion or non-inclusion of an oxidising agent is pretty much irrelevant, and in many ways, in the Zn/S reaction, Sulphur acts as an electron acceptor and hence is at least technically an oxidising agent. In the same way, single component explosives like NI3.NH3 or HE are still explosives despite not including an oxidising agent as such.

The question of what actually defines an explosive/propellant is an interesting question. I'm not sure what anyone else thinks, but I don't think many people would consider an acid/bicarb rocket as an explosive? How about a dry ice 'bomb'? Again, not an explosive per se, just a solid undergoing phase change. Is it not more about rate of reaction?

Anyhow, just some things to think about...

[digger]

The definition of a pyrotechnic composition as viewed within the scope of the law is defined in MSER. So all the information should be there.

As soon as it is put in a tube it becomes "practical use". This has been confirmed with discussions with the HSE.

So pretty cut and dry really.