33 replies to this topic

[Potassium chlorate]

Pyroswede,did you bind with Nc?,ive tried with dextrin and alc/water apart from being a bugger to dry, and burn a little bit slower i cound'nt see a colour difference between NC and dex.

Yes, I did. If anything it seems that NC improves the colour of any composition.

Hm, I answered this before, but my former post disappeared.

[CCH Concepts]

could it be an option to directly use the benzoic acid with the copper carbonate? would this not precipitate copper benzonate?

its available on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item5ad7fea36a

[digger]

bloody expensive way of doing it.

You could make a kilo for the price of making 50 grams if bought that one

[CCH Concepts]

yer i was thinking that might be the case when i saw it was only 50g worth, but im sure it can be brought much cheaper than that.

[CCH Concepts]

this is a bit better

http://www.abbey-che...&products_id=52

[digger]

Still expensive. You would need to add VAT to that so your home made copper benz would work out at £30 per kg. Before you get your copper carbonate.

Why not just use potassium benzoate and copper sulphate? pot benz from me £6 per kg and 1kg of copper sulphate at about £6

[CCH Concepts]

i guess because i like overy complicating things and that would be to simple. haha but point definatly taken, what sparked my interested was seeing it for sale on ebay and i woundered for any uses.

[digger]

Benzoic acid does have its uses for producing Benzoates. If you want to produce a soluble benzoate then the best option would be to use benzoic acid. I make my own benzoic acid from potassium benzoate and hydrochloric acid, as it is much cheaper than trying to by it (benzoic acid insoluble in cold water and soluble in hot so easy to separate and purify).

[CCH Concepts]

its ridiculous its cheaper to make than buy. I'm guessing its supply and demand, more of the salts are needed than the acid its self.

[digger]

its ridiculous its cheaper to make than buy. I'm guessing its supply and demand, more of the salts are needed than the acid its self.

I would guess that the case is that it is made in the same process that makes the salts. So it is not made as a mainstream volume product.

[CCH Concepts]

would it be as simple to make Ba and Sr benzonate. I'm just thinking this could make a whole color system with differing ratios of benzonate salts, somewhat like the Valene system.

[seymour]

It is possible, and I have done it. Yield was low, for the strontium at least, so I suspected that it is fairly soluble, and I was just taking what precipitated. Perhaps I should have crystalised out from the solution too... though that generally relies on knowing solubility of the product at different temperatures, which I do not know.

I did not do many tests, but Strontium benzoate seems to love water...

[digger]

I have made both strontium and barium benzoate from the carbonate with benzoic acid. I did not have to much trouble with the strontium regarding hygroscopic nature. The barium benz is exceptional with barium chlorate. Probably the easiest and best green I have come across.

[CCH Concepts]

i am trying to stir away from chlorate and from what i read BaClO3 is hard to get hold of and synthesis. I'm thinking about the aforementioned ammonium perchlorate or even KClO4. thoughts?

this could be a color system consisting of very few chems.

[seymour]

I have made both strontium and barium benzoate from the carbonate with benzoic acid. I did not have to much trouble with the strontium regarding hygroscopic nature. The barium benz is exceptional with barium chlorate. Probably the easiest and best green I have come across.

My hygroscopicity was probably a result of impurities then.