22 replies to this topic

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Like I mentioned in another thread, I substituted HCB for HCE in Chinese Blue#1 with a good result. HCB is easy to get hold of in Scandinavia and continental Europe, yet. It's crystalline, so you must mill it, and even dry stars smell a bit of it, but if you don't store them too long, that shouldn't be much of a problem.

You used HCE instead of HCB if I got this right?

And I think you meant that HCE, not HCB, is easily obtained in Europe and Scandinavia. HCB is impossible to find.

I think it makes a difference what the uses are: HCE ordinarily is only used in smokes, but has a very high chlorine content, much higher than all the other donors including HCB if I remember correctly. So you can probably replace HCB with HCE in stars. Strobes are different though; here HCB has been used because of its burning properties (not disturbing the strobe effect), not because of its chlorine content, which isn´t much larger than that of parlon.

[Potassium chlorate]

You used HCE instead of HCB if I got this right?

And I think you meant that HCE, not HCB, is easily obtained in Europe and Scandinavia. HCB is impossible to find.

I think it makes a difference what the uses are: HCE ordinarily is only used in smokes, but has a very high chlorine content, much higher than all the other donors including HCB if I remember correctly. So you can probably replace HCB with HCE in stars. Strobes are different though; here HCB has been used because of its burning properties (not disturbing the strobe effect), not because of its chlorine content, which isn´t much larger than that of parlon.

Yes, I used HCE. I guess your native language, like mine, isn't English, in which case "substituted for" sounds the other way around.

I also know that it's mostly used in smokes. Hexazinc is one of the most common, a simple 1:1 mix of HCE and zinc.

But it worked in blue stars as well. Haven't tried it in another composition, partly because there are few compositions with HCB in them, where you can use HCE as a subsitute and partly because it must be milled first and has a very bad nauseating odour.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Does anyone happen to have a glassmaker in his family? They are often using shitloads of arsenic oxide to prevent bubble formation, or at least know where/how to get some. I have given up the attemps to buy paris green directly.

[crystal palace fireworks]

Does anyone happen to have a glassmaker in his family? They are often using shitloads of arsenic oxide to prevent bubble formation, or at least know where/how to get some. I have given up the attemps to buy paris green directly.

Perhaps a search for craft based `glass blowers` or `pottery makers/firer`s` might be the avenue for arsenic oxide supplies! your local main library (reference section) should have a `Kelly`s` directory for all UK manufacturers!

[MDH]

Like I mentioned in another thread, I substituted HCB for HCE in Chinese Blue#1 with a good result. HCB is easy to get hold of in Scandinavia and continental Europe, yet. It's crystalline, so you must mill it, and even dry stars smell a bit of it, but if you don't store them too long, that shouldn't be much of a problem.

That is a significant problem. I begin creating fireworks for the next new years literally days within the beginning of each year, and many of these are based on colors. Right now the strongest chlorine donors I have are CPVC and Parlon. I am quite interested in using hexachloroethane but I would appreciate knowing if there is a way one could use primes that seal the hexachloroethane within the star.

[Potassium chlorate]

That is a significant problem. I begin creating fireworks for the next new years literally days within the beginning of each year, and many of these are based on colors. Right now the strongest chlorine donors I have are CPVC and Parlon. I am quite interested in using hexachloroethane but I would appreciate knowing if there is a way one could use primes that seal the hexachloroethane within the star.

An NC laquer based one might do, if it's thick enough. But considering the volatility of HCE, I think you should substitute it directly, i.e. use the same percentage as you would use of HCB. Especially after the chrystals are milled and mixed with the other chemicals, the volatility might even increase, so I think the greatest problem is to keep it in the star without it evaporating.

[Mumbles]

There is a black star formulation that suffers from the same issues. It is composed of Potassium Chlorate, Napthalene, and Antimony Trisulfide. Naphthalene, like HCE, sublimates at ambient conditions. I don't believe NC lacquer as a binder, or as a final dip was enough to seal them in, though I'd imagine the rate was slowed. Off hand I can't think of anything that fully sealed the stars, at least without detrimental effects to their function.

[pyrotrev]

It may well be that the important thing about HCB is the lack of hydrogen in the molecule rather than the absolute chlorine content. If so, there could be other alternatives; try for intance pentachlorophenol (or maybe the K salt of it so it's not acidic). Unfortunately it seems like pretty well all of these heavily chlorinated compounds are toxic, but at least there's some that aren't banned!