11 replies to this topic

[exat808]

I am working on a training package relating to the safe and secure storage of pyro and fireworks as currently enforced by Local Authorities and Fire & Rescue Services in GB.
As part of my research I would be interested in what levels of security are being prescribed ( padlocks, alarms, steel containers etc etc) by the licensing authority.

I'm only interested in the physical requirements being made and I'm not too interested in which authority made the requirements.
Any responses are for my own use ( other than the fact that the rest of the world can see the forum) PM me if you wish.

[Firework Crazy]

It would be nice if all the local authorities sung from the same hymn sheet as a lot of them seem to make it up as they go along. The HSE really does need to publish a difinitive guide on what can and can't be done.

In this day and age it's not hard to have a central website with all the do's and dont's with updates etc.

[Mixologist]

Mine requested that: For an ISO conatiner,

Seperation distances as per usual.
Wooden Lined Sides - All screw heads covered. (not too bad a job to be fair)
Padlock with lock box - CISA type preffered.
Another Padlock also on door lever.
2 Grounding Points with conductor rods sunk at least 2Ft into the ground.


There was no mention of an alarm - in-fact if it was internal and battery run i don't think he would be happy as he explicity told me no batteries were to be stored in the container. (torches etc)


It would be good to have a set of standards for everybody. However you hear of some places where it sounds like an utter pain what they have to go through and it would certainly have put me off. I think me setup is safe and secure and was not too prohibitive to do all that was asked.

[exat808]

Mine requested that: For an ISO conatiner,

Seperation distances as per usual.
Wooden Lined Sides - All screw heads covered. (not too bad a job to be fair)
Padlock with lock box - CISA type preffered.
Another Padlock also on door lever.
2 Grounding Points with conductor rods sunk at least 2Ft into the ground.


There was no mention of an alarm - in-fact if it was internal and battery run i don't think he would be happy as he explicity told me no batteries were to be stored in the container. (torches etc)


It would be good to have a set of standards for everybody. However you hear of some places where it sounds like an utter pain what they have to go through and it would certainly have put me off. I think me setup is safe and secure and was not too prohibitive to do all that was asked.

any standards or guidance would have to be industry or user group lead. It would need input from the LAs and fire services. A big project. The HSE are keen to see all new guidance created this way.

[crystal palace fireworks]

I agree with mixologist, we need clearer but simpler guidelines from HSE.

Many ISO firework containers by there nature are sited in secluded locations for obvious reasons, but there is a slight downside on the security front from an intruder perspective. Under new storage guidelines I would like to see provision to include the storage of a battery/solar charger within the iso containers to fit an alarm linked to one`s own mobile phone in case of false entry, this would include a internal sectioned off void within the container to include ventilation in case of possible battery degredation.

To counteract the above possibility, most car type 12 volt batteries have a 3 year guarantee, legislation could include the requirement to renew the battery every 3 years as part of any license storage renewal.

Whats you view chaps, in theory or practice is this a good or bad idea? or are there other issues I have forgotten or not addressed?

[exat808]

I agree with mixologist, we need clearer but simpler guidelines from HSE.

Many ISO firework containers by there nature are sited in secluded locations for obvious reasons, but there is a slight downside on the security front from an intruder perspective. Under new storage guidelines I would like to see provision to include the storage of a battery/solar charger within the iso containers to fit an alarm linked to one`s own mobile phone in case of false entry, this would include a internal sectioned off void within the container to include ventilation in case of possible battery degredation.

To counteract the above possibility, most car type 12 volt batteries have a 3 year guarantee, legislation could include the requirement to renew the battery every 3 years as part of any license storage renewal.

Whats you view chaps, in theory or practice is this a good or bad idea? or are there other issues I have forgotten or not addressed?

a sound idea but possibly too much detail. How about "stores to be fitted with an alarm system capable of immediately notifying the occupier of the store or other designated person of an attack". This would allow for variations to your idea. I get the impression that local authority inspectors find it hard at times to balance safety and security especially in the absence of guidance on the former.

[phildunford]

I would be reluctant to call for any more requirements.

How soon before 'alarm to inform the owner' would turn into full Redcare alarm system required... £1000 plus extra per year.

Technically I can't really see the point of grounding, as the metal box is already a Faraday cage. Anyone entering will assume the same potential, even if it is not ground, and there can therefore be no potential difference inside.

[Arthur Brown]

While the contents are fireworks and not High Consequence Dangerous Goods I'd be happy if the regs/ACOP said something along the lines of "an alarm system may be fitted" There is always the likleyhood that the alarm will malfunction and sadly the vast majority of alarms are false alarms. I'd be looking at a reasonable flat watertight box on the roof complete with solar cells, but would it work and produce evidence grade information for a viable length of time.


By the way, what is the current spec for torches or lighting for use within a HT3 store?

[Firework Crazy]

There is nothing to stop you having power and light in a container as long as everything is enclosed. i.e covered lights, round plastic conduit for cables etc. We have power to our containers for a dual-com alarm.

[crystal palace fireworks]

I take note of Phil D`s point on the pain/cost of more requirements, but that said, I thought the redcare BT system only worked with the landline being cut to trigger a GSM alarm to ones phone?,..although I maybe wrong.

My idea is really only for containers/sheds without mains supply in isolated areas, I believe its possible to create a home made alert system, basically a GSM phone is left on within the container linked to something like a magnetic breaker on the entrance door, if the door is opened, this then triggers the phone to remotely dial your other personal mobile = you answer your phone but don`t speak & listen-in! or I believe its possible to include a light source & camera to relay pics to your mobile!

I like arthurs idea to legally get around regs by perhaps having a solar panal/battery on the roof within a secure container!

[Arthur Brown]

On topic!

I've seen stores that were required to have timber lining to the walls, and others required to have timber on the roof also. I once looked at buying a container being retired from an HSE store that was unlined, apparently that is OK for an HSE licensed store.

[Mixologist]

I would be reluctant to call for any more requirements.

Technically I can't really see the point of grounding, as the metal box is already a Faraday cage. Anyone entering will assume the same potential, even if it is not ground, and there can therefore be no potential difference inside.

I think the "may be fitted with and alarm" is a better option. I for one do not want an alarm on my container and would not wnat the extra cost. (It is in a very secure location.)

There is nothing to stop you having power and light in a container as long as everything is enclosed. i.e covered lights, round plastic conduit for cables etc. We have power to our containers for a dual-com alarm.

Your officer sounds better than mine! Seriously though, no power source to or in the container.

On topic!

I've seen stores that were required to have timber lining to the walls, and others required to have timber on the roof also. I once looked at buying a container being retired from an HSE store that was unlined, apparently that is OK for an HSE licensed store.

Yes my officer wanted it lined. I have seen a few HSE 40fters not lines and that is fine also if they say so!