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#1 willdee

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 03:53 PM

As anyone who saw my first post will know i am new to pyro (and very naive :unsure: ) and need (lots!) guidence on where to start.

I dont want to ever make anything complex, large or too dangerous ( I do realise that there is always some hazard even with raw 'ingredients'- (Right Word?)
So anyway I do have a basic understanding of things but that is as far as my knowlage goes.

I have seen people making KNO3+sugar rockets on youtube and they looked to be reativley simple and cheap to make but then again I though FP was a good place to start...
I have seen that this forum is for people who know their stuff so I dont want to drag the level of profesionalism on the forum down so just try and bear with me, i may seem very eager but i realise that this isnt simple stuff and that I must have a respect for what I am doing.

As I've said any advice any guidence and maybe a good starting point will all be appriciated, as yet I dont have any kit or chemicals.



Thanks

Edited by willdee, 17 June 2011 - 04:00 PM.


#2 Guest_PyroPDC_*

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:22 PM

if you want to start somewhere, id suggest BP. its one of the most basic comps but you will need it for nearly every firework shells, bp rockets, fountins cakesthe list is endless. it also gives a good starting point for all the basic equipment needed for this hobby.

you will find all the chemicals on cooperman435 website for sale

equipment needed i would recommend a good ball mill. lots of topics on this website from people that have already made one with links to places to where get parts.

quite a lot of you tube videos showing the process, also pyroguide has some good tutorials, but also has a some bad information to.

once you have made your meal powder you can choose if you want to make press them into pucks or wet it and add with some dextrin / granulated it.

we have all started in the dog house at some point, even the basic flash is frowned upon because there is no skill involved, mix 2 chemicals and its done but the dangers involved from static to impact sensitivity makes it so dangerous, mixing with magnesium powder just adds 10x more more danger and there is very little advantage to noise. flash does have its place in pyro but not the sort of thing you want to be doing in a built up area. just 2g of it would be enough to take your hand off.

good luck at keep safe

Edited by PyroPDC, 17 June 2011 - 06:28 PM.


#3 Arthur Brown

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:53 PM

I strongly suggest that you read a real book copy of Rev Ron Lancaster's book on Fireworks. Then look into the books by Weingart and Shimizu.

Also read this forum in depth, topics already exist on almost every possible subject. When you know the products and the implications then perhaps starting to play with very SMALL quantities may be fun til you can confidently move up to bigger things.

Dont run before you can do the basics, things that can bang will bite back and hurt or injure you.
http://www.movember.com/uk/home/

Keep mannequins and watermelons away from fireworks..they always get hurt..

#4 Mortartube

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:17 PM

I agree with the previous posters here, read first then experiment, but I would add.

Once you have some meal powder, I would suggest that a small fountain would be a good starting point. If a rocket goes wrong, it can veer off and cause property damage and injury. A SMALL fountain (think Nov 5th selection box size), will give you experience in choking tubes and also adjusting the speed of your powder. Just start of with a basic gunpowder mix with some coarse charcoal added for sparks. Do NOT add metals at this stage. If your meal is good you may find the tube explodes so as always in pyro, keep a safe distance and take all safety precautions.

Try raw green mix in one and meal in another. Make notes, video it if you can and compare the difference.

To slow down a violent BP mix add more charcoal, to speed it up add more KNO3, adjust by about 2 or 3% each time until you get it right. Think of it like a car, charcoal is the brake, KNO3 the accelerator.

Learning to choke tubes and slow down or speed up a gunpowder mix will help you immensely later on if you have rockets for instance that will not fly or they explode.

Edited by Mortartube, 17 June 2011 - 06:19 PM.

Organisation is a wonderful trait in others

#5 Atom Fireworks

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 10:57 AM

thats a much better thread for a first time :P , right as the lads have said BP is where you should start, its not as easy as it sounds to get it right and controllable. Also its used in everything and its relativly safe to handle, infact i could be wrong buts its possibly the safest of all the compositions we may find ourself using in the hobby. I would suggest building your own mill or buying one, i know cooperman on here builds mills for people hes worth speaking to. He also has all the chems you would should need as a new starter in pyro also hes very knowledgable if you have any questions about chemicals and there dangers ect.....


When i started out in pyro i did a lot of reading but jumped the gun on first projects, i went straight in for building shells and before i succesfully made one that work i had built over 20 and realised that you really do need all the equipment and correct chems and practices in place. For example before i bought shell casings and learnt the correct pasting technique i was cutting a tennis ball in half and then taping it back up with the contents of shop bought firework stars !!!!! Extremely dangerous as i had no idea what was in the stars and also the ammount of heavy waste coming back down was bad. Luckily none of them worked anyways until i met cooperman who put me straight :wub:

Just look after urself and if theres any questions no matter how daft they may seem just post it on here or pm anyone you feel confident to ask. Pyro guide has a good page about " death mix's" basically a few chems you should stay clear of and especially do not mix them.



Jay




#6 willdee

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 01:40 PM

Well thanks for all the info,
I certainly feel better about what to do now,
I do like the idea of black powder does anyone know how safe thermite is?

#7 Atom Fireworks

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 01:47 PM

Well thanks for all the info,
I certainly feel better about what to do now,
I do like the idea of black powder does anyone know how safe thermite is?



Ive never made or used any because its not really used in fireworks but from what i understand its relativly safe do some research online about it first. It burns extremely hot as ime sure you are aware n as such you should be very carefull where you test some if you make it as it burns through solid steel no problems !!

#8 Mortartube

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 01:54 PM

Well thanks for all the info,
I certainly feel better about what to do now,
I do like the idea of black powder does anyone know how safe thermite is?



Thermite is an extremely high temperature composition that can burn holes in concrete.

I am posting this video NOT as an instruction of how to make thermite, but to show you how hot and dangerous it can be.



PLEASE start with BP and forget other stuff until you get it right, then consider simple star mixes such as willow, tiger tail and firefly.

Pyro is not a hobby that you can just leap into high energy or unsuitable mixes. You wouldn't put a learner driver in an F1 car and consider it to be safe.

BP is the basis for almost everything you will make from fountains, to shells and rockets. Once you get it right, you will have more knowledge of how mixes work and how to tailor them to your needs.

Simply put BP first, other stuff later.
Organisation is a wonderful trait in others

#9 Arthur Brown

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 02:17 PM

Remembering that a youtube USA member's statement of the "law" may not be the same as your solicitor's opinion in this country.
http://www.movember.com/uk/home/

Keep mannequins and watermelons away from fireworks..they always get hurt..

#10 Mortartube

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 02:30 PM

Very true Arthur. A point that was in my mind but I ommitted to post.
Organisation is a wonderful trait in others

#11 willdee

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:23 PM

OK BP it is,
Can I make crude BP without a ball mill ,just by making small batches with a pestle and mortar to grind the ingredients seperatly,
I will look into getting the correct chemicals now.

Is this KNO3 ok to use? :http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=93_65_69_71&products_id=423&zenid=5641cdcbd8ae1b5e6e3f0e59c4a46a28
Just copy and paste the link It seems to be at a good price and the delivery charge isnt too bad either nor is the delivery time.

I will use coopermans site for the charcoal and sulphur :D

Edited by willdee, 19 June 2011 - 03:39 PM.


#12 www.oliverbrown.co.uk

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:50 PM

OK BP it is,
Can I make crude BP without a ball mill ,just by making small batches with a pestle and mortar to grind the ingredients seperatly,
I will look into getting the correct chemicals now.

Is this KNO3 ok to use? :http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=93_65_69_71&products_id=423&zenid=5641cdcbd8ae1b5e6e3f0e59c4a46a28
Just copy and paste the link It seems to be at a good price and the delivery charge isnt too bad either nor is the delivery time.

I will use coopermans site for the charcoal and sulphur :D


You can indeed make bp without a mill, you will need one more ingredient though and lots of it......'elbow grease'. I have made bp this way as I suspect we all did at first, results are poor at best compared to milled bp.
To make anything in this hobby you will soon find out that one bad ingredient can spoil the cake, I bought my first batch of kn03 from an online store that was an offshoot from an ebay store, absolute rubbish, luckily my pyro guru friend spotted what was wrong and gave me some of his so beware quality is everything! (not saying this vendor is bad, just find out before you buy).
http://www.oliverbro...o.uk/index.html Pyrotechnic supplies and tooling

#13 willdee

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 04:32 PM

OK so the stuff on the fluidsensoronline site may or may not be any good.

Any trusted sites to buy from??

Any good places to get fuse as well

Edited by willdee, 19 June 2011 - 04:41 PM.


#14 martyn

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 05:09 PM

There are several excellent suppliers on here.
I'll point you in the direction of this one, as it's probably the one most likely to show up on a simple google search.
You will need to be able to prove you are an adult. to buy some of the products.




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