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Gold glitter fountain / gerb


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#1 Sparky

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:47 PM

Hi all

I have been experimenting with a gold glitter formula from Skylighter and I am having trouble with the effect. The formula is:



Gold Glitter Gerb/Fountain Fuel
ComponentRatio72-Ounce BatchPotassium Nitrate0.4935.3 ouncesAirfloat Charcoal0.128.65 ouncesSulfur0.064.3 ouncesSodium Oxalate0.085.75 ouncesAntimony Trisulfide0.1510.8 ounces200 mesh Magnalium0.107.2 ounces

I mixed and dampened with methylated spirit as described in the steps but when I test the gerb I get a very uneven effect. I get pulses of gold glitter with periods of almost no effect at all.

I've tried a variety of nozzle sizes and even added some BP to speed it up a little. The comp is VERY drossy so I thought that the nozzle needs to be large enough to prevent slagging it up but then there doesn't seem to be enough thrust. If I go with a narrow choke I still get pulses.

Any ideas?

#2 Sparky

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:35 PM

Darn it, that was so nicely formatted in preview mode Posted Image

Gold Glitter Gerb/Fountain Fuel

Component Ratio
Potassium Nitrate 0.49
Airfloat Charcoal 0.12
Sulfur 0.06
Sodium Oxalate 0.08
Antimony Trisulfide 0.15
200 mesh Magnalium 0.10

Edited by Sparky, 15 July 2012 - 09:38 PM.


#3 bangkokpyro

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:03 AM

I tried that formula and had the same problem, most glitter fountains don't have much thrust to them and are pretty drossy.
If you like silver you could try this one. I use a 3/4 ID tube about 10 inch long no choke. It also make an amazing waterfall

52 Potassium Nitrate
14 Antimony Trisulphide
10 Barium Carbonate
10 AF Charcoal
7 Sulphur
7 Atomized 325 mesh Aluminium
If I remember correctly this is Winocur Silver c comp
Just screen it through a 40 mesh screen a couple of times without the Al then diaper in the Al afterwards. Press into tubes (not a good idea to try ramming this mix! )

Edited by bangkokpyro, 16 July 2012 - 05:04 AM.


#4 Sparky

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:34 PM

I tried that formula and had the same problem, most glitter fountains don't have much thrust to them and are pretty drossy.
If you like silver you could try this one. I use a 3/4 ID tube about 10 inch long no choke. It also make an amazing waterfall

52 Potassium Nitrate
14 Antimony Trisulphide
10 Barium Carbonate
10 AF Charcoal
7 Sulphur
7 Atomized 325 mesh Aluminium
If I remember correctly this is Winocur Silver c comp
Just screen it through a 40 mesh screen a couple of times without the Al then diaper in the Al afterwards. Press into tubes (not a good idea to try ramming this mix! )


Thanks I'll give that a try for my waterfall project.

Do you know of any gold fountain formula? What actually gives the golden sparks in the original, is it a reaction with the Sodium Oxalate?




#5 bangkokpyro

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:43 PM

here's a picture of the waterfall 26 tubes 3/4 Id no choke 10 inch long

http://www.bangkokpy...r waterfall.jpg

#6 Creepin_pyro

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:38 PM

I would highly recommend Lloyd Sponenburgh's Buttered Popcorn Glitter. In your formula the Oxalate is colouring the flashes yellow, bicarbonate can also be used, and has a dual purpose as a delay agent. Ive tried a few formulas like the skylighter one, and all exhibited the pulsing effect. Moving to a formula that uses meal solved this.

Edited by Creepin_pyro, 16 July 2012 - 04:40 PM.


#7 Sparky

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:30 PM

Wow ok Meal is a pain to make just for fountains. Would rather not get into having to mill BP just for that. Are these other formulae ok to use without Meal?

#8 Creepin_pyro

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:55 AM

Wow ok Meal is a pain to make just for fountains. Would rather not get into having to mill BP just for that. Are these other formulae ok to use without Meal?


The only other way I've got similar mixes to work is to use meal, either as very small increments to clear the choke of dross every few seconds, or mixed in to replace some or all of the Kno3/C/S.

Would be interested to hear if anyone has other formula suggestions.

#9 Sparky

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:08 PM

here's a picture of the waterfall 26 tubes 3/4 Id no choke 10 inch long

http://www.bangkokpy...20waterfall.jpg


The pic took a while to load but that looks very golden! I'll give it a try I think as it is what I want if the colour is accurate on the photograph?




#10 bangkokpyro

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:32 AM

You are going to try the formula for a fountain or waterfall?

Works great in a waterfall but useless for a fountain.
For the waterfall pictured I used 8 Barium Carbonate and 2 Sodium Oxalate.
Tubes were pressed not rammed by hand. Comp lights easily with no need for any kind of starter comp.
I pressed the comp leaving a 1/2 inch space in the top into which I forced a wad of blackmatch.
A 3 inch length of blackmatch exiting the tube nosed with 2 turns of 30lb paper completed the fuse assembly.

#11 MDH

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:54 PM

You will need fine grain black powder and a specific mesh of charcoal.

Try this:

30 Black Powder (-30)
25 KNO3
25 Pine Charcoal (-60)
10 Aluminum, fine granular or spherical
7 delay
3 sulfur

Nice pleasant spray of drifting gold sparks. It can be ferocious. It should be pressed into large 2" ID, 1/4 to 1/2" thick fireproofed cardboard tubes of about 8" in length with a nice 1" or so if solid plug at the bottom. I either crimp it or have a 3/4" nozzle.

Remember, larger fountains need less black powder and oxidation. If you overoxidize or use fuels with too large of a flame envelope (Avoid excessive sulfur) in large fountains, you will lose all of your effect to the flame envelope. On the contrary, and badly underoxidized one will glob up inside of the tube and won't display much effect other than burning the tube out and making a lot of smoke.

Edited by MDH, 22 July 2012 - 10:57 PM.


#12 Mumbles

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 02:19 AM

The formula Ned gives is essentially just a lightly rounded version on John Werner's glitter saxon formula. John's formula is primarily meal D, which may play a role in getting a good effect.

Meal D 65
Sodium Oxalate 8
Antimony Sulfide 15
Magnalium, -200 mesh 10
Charcoal, Airfloat 2


I've also used the formula that Bangkok pyro posted, and really liked it. I've always used it as described in Pyrotechnica II. I bet the Werner formula work work well in a similar setup.

#13 MDH

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:16 PM

I've also used the formula that Bangkok pyro posted, and really liked it.


He is a king midas. He makes excellent shells.

Edited by MDH, 30 July 2012 - 03:17 PM.


#14 Sparky

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:30 PM

You are going to try the formula for a fountain or waterfall?

Works great in a waterfall but useless for a fountain.
For the waterfall pictured I used 8 Barium Carbonate and 2 Sodium Oxalate.
Tubes were pressed not rammed by hand. Comp lights easily with no need for any kind of starter comp.
I pressed the comp leaving a 1/2 inch space in the top into which I forced a wad of blackmatch.
A 3 inch length of blackmatch exiting the tube nosed with 2 turns of 30lb paper completed the fuse assembly.



Hi, I'm going to give this a try as the waterfall in gold looks amazing! Barium Carbonate is not something I had but I've got some on order to give it a try.

I've got a formula for a silver fountain which I'm really happy with and is rather simple in so far as it just uses Potassium Perchlorate and 3 types of Aluminium, fine flake, 60 mesh granulated and large flakes. I may give yours a try too though.

I'm still working on my ball mill so for now Meal D is not possible. The best BP I can produce is where I've milled the chemicals separately in a coffee grinder and then used a wet mixing process. I've tried the CIA method and to be frank it seems only marginally better than wet mixing.

Ball Mill project will be taking shape when I take some time off this summer :-)



#15 Sparky

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:56 PM

You are going to try the formula for a fountain or waterfall?

Works great in a waterfall but useless for a fountain.
For the waterfall pictured I used 8 Barium Carbonate and 2 Sodium Oxalate.
Tubes were pressed not rammed by hand. Comp lights easily with no need for any kind of starter comp.
I pressed the comp leaving a 1/2 inch space in the top into which I forced a wad of blackmatch.
A 3 inch length of blackmatch exiting the tube nosed with 2 turns of 30lb paper completed the fuse assembly.


I've got my Barium Carbonate now. What's the full formula for that golden waterfall in the picture?







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