24 replies to this topic

[dannytsg]

I am aware that as of October we require either an Acquire or A&K for flash powder. Can I ask if there has been any clarification as to exactly what they are classing as flash and how it is defined?

I am aware that for commercial fireworks there is a test to determine what is classified as flash within fireworks - "Note 2: "Flash composition" in this table refers to pyrotechnic compositions in powder form as pyrotechnic units as presented in the fireworks, that are used to produce an aural effect, or used as a bursting charge or lifting charge, unluess the time taken for the pressure rise is demonstrated to be more than 8ms for 0.5g of pyrotechnic composition in Test Series 2©(i) "Time/pressure test" of the Manual of Tests and Criteria."

Will the same test apply?

Would appreciate any input from those with more knowledge.

[Arthur Brown]

From the best info I've had so far, the explosive substance Flash Powder will be on A&K from the start date for the new regs ER 2014. Articles, be they fireworks or pyrotechnics containing containing (some) flash powder will not be on A&K.

[dannytsg]

From the best info I've had so far, the explosive substance Flash Powder will be on A&K from the start date for the new regs ER 2014. Articles, be they fireworks or pyrotechnics containing containing (some) flash powder will not be on A&K.

How is flash quantified though in the eyes of the law? We all know that flash powder itself can be of differing compositions. I really want to know how in the law it is defined

[martyn]

I'm sorry can't answer your question directly, but a couple of points. It may even be that there is no exact legal definition of flash, the rule you quoted is probably as good as it gets.

You don't really need to store it, the sort of quantity any of us are likely to need can be knocked up in a couple of minutes, so an acquire only is acceptable.

My acquire uses the phrase something like 'up to 100g of any pyrotechnic composition....blah..' so presumably any variation of flash mix is covered.

As a sensible working interpretation for your question, if you are expecting or hoping it to behave like flash - it probably is flash!

[dannytsg]

I'm sorry can't answer your question directly, but a couple of points. It may even be that there is no exact legal definition of flash, the rule you quoted is probably as good as it gets.
You don't really need to store it, the sort of quantity any of us are likely to need can be knocked up in a couple of minutes, so an acquire only is acceptable.
My acquire uses the phrase something like 'up to 100g of any pyrotechnic composition....blah..' so presumably any variation of flash mix is covered.
As a sensible working interpretation for your question, if you are expecting or hoping it to behave like flash - it probably is flash!

Thanks for that Martin. It just got me thinking whether there had been a specific definition to flash powder or whether it is more a catch all term

[dave]

there is a post on ukfr which touches on the definition of what constitutes flash powder, but it would seem that
 
quote.......".0.5g of composition needs to have a pressure rise of less than 8ms to not be classified as a flash powder."
 
ref post here :- posted by Pyrotechnic Engineering, see the full thread in the post.
http://www.fireworks...r-weight.24036/
 
it would seem actual material composition is irrelevant, as it is defined by the pressure rise of less than 8ms
 
and from Wizard Fireworks in the same thread..................
quote ......"For classification purposes:

Note 2: "Flash composition" in this table refers to pyrotechnic compositions in powder form as pyrotechnic units as presented in the fireworks, that are used to produce an aural effect, or used as a bursting charge or lifting charge, unluess the time taken for the pressure rise is demonstrated to be more than 8ms for 0.5g of pyrotechnic composition in Test Series 2©(i) "Time/pressure test" of the Manual of Tests and Criteria.

Basically if it isnt "Black Powder" its considered flash unless you can prove the above...."

check out the original post on ukfr.

[dannytsg]

Thanks Dave. I posted that quote in my initial post however that classification relates only to the manufacture and classification of commercially available fireworks with flash in them.

I was wondering whether this definition applied to flash powder as would be put on an A&K that's all.

[wayne]

UN 0305 but flash powder is probably the best and simple definition for your A&K application.

[maxman]

My ELO has sent me an acquire application form to fill in. I have submitted acquire and keep and had a visit but it seems that two certificates are required as acquire only comps cannot go on acquire and keep certs. The acquire form appears to be new and is numbered ER4 and is for explosive regulations 2014

 

I can not see flash powder on the form though. When I fill this in what should I put? <100g experimental pyrotechnic composition?? including flash powder? UN0305??

 

Just wondered as I don't want to mess up the application.

 

Thanks

 

Rod

[wayne]

My ELO has sent me an acquire application form to fill in. I have submitted acquire and keep and had a visit but it seems that two certificates are required as acquire only comps cannot go on acquire and keep certs. The acquire form appears to be new and is numbered ER4 and is for explosive regulations 2014

 

I can not see flash powder on the form though. When I fill this in what should I put? <100g experimental pyrotechnic composition?? including flash powder? UN0305??

 

Just wondered as I don't want to mess up the application.

 

Thanks

 

Rod

 

See guidance, IV.b Explosives certificates

Edited by wayne, 09 October 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[maxman]

OK thanks Wayne, I see it now. So I have applied for A&K blackpowder and I have been sent an application for "acquire" only. So I take it I don't need to put BP on that one??

 

So according to the guidance IV.b  Explosive requested it says. "Black powder, and flash powder, and pyrotechnic substances comprising mixtures of...."

 

So I miss off the BP on this one?

 

and I don't understand "pyrotechnic substances comprising of...."  The idea is experimentation so I  can't specifically answer that other than any pyrotechnic substance. Or am I missing something?

 

Thanks

 

Rod

[rocketpro]

This is how I see it.

 

As the name implies it is an "Explosives Certificate" Surely that means the police are only interested in any listed explosives.

 

I can`t really see why they would want to know what is included in <_100g of Pyrotechnic composition - the list could be endless!

 

The form is only asking for "Explosives" or "Articles" required.

 

Hopefully Wayne can explain further.

 

You must be keen to get that form in the post Rod.

Edited by rocketpro, 11 October 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[Rip Rap]

Just had my ELO telephone me to keep me up to date as far as my Explosive cert for flash was progressing.

He hoped that he would get it sorted and out to me by the end of the week. The main hold up so far (apart from the background checks etc) from his point of view, is that the "system" wont accept the UN number 0305.

He has to input the UN number to generate the certificate. Looks like certain parts of the system are playing catch up!

He said that I will be the first in the Durham force area to be issued with this type of cert.

Anyone else got there's yet or have any issues with UN number etc?

[maxman]

Interesting update Rip Rap. I applied in September I think but not heard anything at all.

 

Have you already got BP A&K?

 

What has your ELO said re: pyrotechnic comps? (stars) (whistle) Are these on acquire only??

 

Rod

[rocketpro]

0305 isn`t even listed!

 

http://www.kent.poli...2014_form_4.pdf

Edited by rocketpro, 16 December 2014 - 11:25 AM.